Is There Such A Thing as Right and Wrong, Good and Bad?

by Quinton on March 4th, 2015

TAM got me thinking that this would probably be a great topic to discuss. This is one of my favorite topics because I find it is at the core of so many things in life.

Is there such a thing as right and wrong? Is everything relative? Should there be all good? Should there be no bad? What is the difference between good and bad? Where did the concepts of good and bad come from?

I think this is a fairly involved question that can't easily be answered with a simple yes or no.

I think there are different qualities that go into understanding this question such as perspective, degree and intention.

From my current understanding I see 3rd density that we live in to be based around duality. These are dynamics that are at the core of 3rd density. I see this as a science thing where the core of matter and energy in 3rd density is based around polarity where for form to exist there has to be some type of plus and negative. So I think the basis of the universe at our generally perceived frequency is built around this concept. Outside of our frequency and at higher densities I'm not so sure and I could see the whole polarity game operating completely differently if at all. Now with that said I think the concepts of good and bad and things like this somewhat build on top of the whole duality dynamics of this density.

Here is something I have come to understand myself that I think is very powerful: There is no such thing as an incorrect choice, but there are correct and incorrect ways to carry out that choice in this reality. This brings in a lot of hierarchical things and perspective.

For example, is it wrong to kill somebody? Most people would say yes. But I won't say that killing somebody is an incorrect choice, it depends. Yeah, most of the time it is wrong to kill somebody, of course. But what about in self defense? What if you're 2 seconds from having your head cut off by them, then is it wrong? Now the tables have turned and it's probably not. So the circumstance plays a lot into this.

So are there universal principles or core right and wrongs that can apply to all circumstances? It depends what level you're looking at it. At the universal level I don't really think so. At the human level maybe, but that also depends on the current consciousness of society and other things. What's considered right today at the human level may be wrong tomorrow. I don't think these right and wrongs change or matter as much at the universal level. To the universe I think it is all just energy, not good or bad. Just energy.

So as humans, animals, plants, matter or whatever else we all have a set perspective of how energy should be used based around the parameters of our entity. Humans have different human rules than plants. They may share some basic needs but they may also have some needs that are totally different. It may be wrong to keep a human from the ability to travel their whole life but that may be okay for a plant. There's different needs.

So I think at the highest level there is no good or bad. As you work down into grouping energy into different types of levels and entities I think certain trends of right and wrong may develop for needs pertaining to those entities.

Now there's the choice aspect. Is it wrong to choose to kill someone? This is a big question. We don't know the full spiritual evolution/karma/expression that somebody is looking to take on. We don't know the non-physical agreements between 2 humans. The universe and spirits are much more about expression and expansion than they are about right and wrong. If 2 spirits agreed before incarnating here that they wanted to play out a killing drama then that is something they chose to play out. We don't fully know the complete, higher-level picture of everything and looking at things with a limited 3rd density perspective can often times be very limiting.

So I'm not so quick to make judgements on things like this myself. Yes, of course like most people I'm not in favor of killing and things like this, but I'm also not 100% set on it being wrong. I always leave a bit of room for everything to have a certain reason for happening and a reason for being favorable or at least planned at a higher level for the entities involved. I've read too many spiritual stories to think any other way. I never put 100% certainty on anything. I leave everything open to degrees, with the degrees differing based on a litany of other parts of data playing into it.

That's how I see it anyway.

After all, the universe is perfect and if things are happening within the universe then they are most likely happening to completely accurate, detailed and beautiful perfection.

I could say a lot more about this, but I would first be curious what you guys have to say on this :)

 Filed under: Philosophy & Psychology, Good, Bad, Right, Wrong


obsrvantlouie: Well...

Nicely written post Q.....I always enjoy your perspective.

According to my experience....

The body is temporary.....the spirit is eternal. For sake of describing certain "experiences" we label things 'good' and 'bad' according to individual belief systems and social complexes/systems. Your example of killing in self defense was very nice.

If you can agree that each and every one of us humans (earthers) has a spirit. If you can understand the concept that every individual spirit has a higherself. That your spirit is just an extension of the TRUE YOU....and that the TRUE YOU....your higherself, is omnipotent.....and that time is not actually linear but based on frequency and vibration you so elegantly said "the universe is perfect and if things are happening within the universe then they are most likely happening to completely accurate, detailed and beautiful perfection."


Everyone is exactly where they are suppose to be and doing exactly what they are suppose to be doing.....even though you may not feel you should be.

To bluntly answer the question......Yes, there exists a difference between right and wrong.

The difference between right and wrong is the consequence(s) of choosing.

It's extremely difficult for earthers to wrap their minds around why a higherself would want to experience being murdered or raped or mind controlled etc. However, it's very easy for us to accept that our highselves want us to be well off, fortunate, lucky, and full of material pleasures.

Without challenge there is no growth.

THE BODY IS TEMPORARY.......the big misunderstanding between right and wrong is people identifying with their body and not their spirit. If you are body will whine and wail over saving endangered species. If you identify with the spirit then you understand that when a species 'dies off' it means that there is nothing more for them to experience....that they have gained all the earth has to offer.

We are here to gain unique individual experience from both polarities.......without darkness, there is no light.

Nice post.

Tarheel: Dig it.

You're not being hypocritical nor are you passing judgement.
Well put, Q-dog.

My thoughts on your question are: "All that is" does NOT discard the ability to discern right from wrong, good from bad or discern and recognize polarity of any sort for that matter, IMHO.

There is no venom in this reply either,so please don't assign any negativity to it.

obsrvantlouie: You failed to answer the question

What exactly is right? What exactly is wrong? What makes right right? What makes wrong wrong?

Your answer assumes right and wrong exist.

Am I wrong to not pay taxes? Am I wrong to take what I feel is mine? Am I wrong to call someone a nitwit if I feel they are one? Would I be wrong to not foil a robbery if the power was in me to stop it? Would I be wrong to not save a life even if I knew I could but at the expense of possibly losing mine?

Where is the book from "All that is" that shows us what is right and wrong?

Tarheel: It comes as no surprise to anyone here.....

....that a shill and a darksider would have issues with distinguishing between darkness & light, good & bad or right and wrong, seeing as how they are both heavy agenda-driven folks.
We've known all along that OL struggles with light, as he told us when he first arrived on the TC scene. We were simply hoping that you may see The Light. Our vision tells us that you do not. It isn't that you cannot, you simply don't care to and that's okay-we chalk it up to your free will. The disturbing part is that amidst a period as dark as now that you would call for darkness.
We know you know the difference in good & bad as well as right & wrong. Let me give you an example: Your son gets abducted, abused and killed. Let me see your indifference in that scenario (or your inability to see badness or darkness therein) and I will know your IN-ability to distinguish between the two truly exists.
Part of the reason for Life is to learn, and learning the differences between two extremes is a part of your "all that is".

pasqualie: Alpha

You are using an example that all will see is horrible. But what Louie is saying is, in this matrix that is coded in polarity, you wont be able to get rid of polarity because its hard coded in it. So to pass judgement or engage in polarity only keeps you stuck in it. Just because he does not judge something does not mean he agrees with it or it is something he would do or condone.

Think of polarity as politics, republican and democrat, good cop bad cop all working on the same team. You pick a side guess what you just engaged in polarity and get pulled down into the sludge of mass consciousness. There are manufactured chaos and events which they will want you to engage in to keep you in the low energy. That is all there is, polarity to keep you in fear and anger and hate, to make you want to go fight a battle and engage in polarity by picking a side.

If you want to get out of the game, you cant engage in polarity.

pasqualie: The problem with darksider and lightsider

They are diametrically opposed, and have the masses pick a side. Its hard coded in polarity and keeps you stuck in mass consciousness which evolves very very slowly. Its the sequential path to incarnation. It competes to keep people stuck in polarity to keep you raising your consciousness very very slowly. its why individuality is not promoted, because individuality allows you to make your own decision, which may be not to engage, and go on your own individual path of raising your consciousness level way ahead of mass consciousness and getting out of the polarity game alot earlier. This is simultaneous incarnation.

In new age its why do good and bad ets promote polarity, because they have sequential incarnations, and not simultaneous ones. So they can raise their consciousness alot faster and get out of polarity and the game or matrix. Its why both good and bad et's in new age, promote mass consciousness, because its the one they operate on, and the path they want for this matrix, so they can piggy back off humanity.

Tarheel: You are very good at...

You are very good at making poor analogies from misleading "sound economic principles" and also at making/pushing bad economical forecasts/deductions from targeted political-agenda memes. Perhaps you should stick with another discipline.

pasqualie: Classic Avoidance Behaviour and deflection here Alpha

Can reply or discuss the topic whether you dont understand it or can make a valid arguement in your case logically, so you change the topic and attempt a low level incarnation response by attempting to insult another. Thing alpha, i am pointing things out so you are aware, i dont seek your approval or need it, so it really doesnt matter to me either way what you accept or believe, or if you to degress to name calling cuz think it elevates your position in the arguement somehow. Looks like you have some growing up to do Alpha. You are blind and you dont even know you are blind.

obsrvantlouie: I will entertain you

Even though you did not address any of my questions....

IF my son were to get abducted, abused and killed....what would I be able to do about it? If he is killed....I assure you I would not wallow in self pity for the remainder of my time here; nor would I go Liam Neeson style and seek revenge. I would do something weird.....I would actually celebrate his life and the time I got to spend with him versus mourning and crying because someone "stole" him from me. Then I would go on to celebrate my life and 'live it'.

I don't identify with the body......the body is a shell for the spirit and it's temporary.....we are all of our bodies going to die.

Also, I have never said I struggle with light......I have said that my communication style is sometimes to blunt and direct for others and mistaken as disrespect but in the end....I really don't give a shit. A spade is a spade and if that's what I see then so be it. If people want to get upset about language then they can either grow up or piss on a rope. Furthermore, WHEN have I ever called for darkness? I will save you the time and answer....I haven't. Nor have I called for 'lightness'. So it's really dark in our world.....fuck it. That's the world we live in so make the best of it and remember what Quinton said about how everything is exactly happening how it should be.

Having said that.

As Pasq said "Just because he does not judge something does not mean he agrees with it or it is something he would do or condone."

I don't agree with GMO so I eat organic, I don't agree with vaccination so I opt out....however, I don't hate the con men who are duping the idiots on these matters. For a LONG time I did and this made me want to 'Save' everyone. Then the hate transitioned towards all the fucking idiots that don't pay attention or educate themselves. Then I thought about how I could change the system. But like Quinton already said.....the system is doing exactly what it is suppose to be doing. The system was designed to be ruled by darkness.

Over the years I have realized the only thing that truly matters are the choices I make for me. Why should I bother myself with how someone else is choosing to live their life? WHO AM I TO JUDGE RIGHT OR WRONG FOR THEM

"If they knew better, they would do better"

Fact is there's a lot of idiots among us....probably about > 75% of the population if not more and if you want to get extremely specific this is actually nature spirit incarnating physical bodies (hence the lack of spark in the eyes). These are the minions that are taken advantage of and want to be saved or want to drop bombs on people....this is why the Pope recently came out and said to not have children is a sin....the Empire wants more minions so they can more easily manipulate the masses and more easily scare the populace.

Summing it up....I don't hate the psychopaths behind the NWO but I don't love them either.....I don't pity them even though I know they are "conceptually hobbled" individuals hell bent on material acquisition and destruction and I have reached the point I don't demonize them either. I don't hate Paul Newman because he hustled Minnesota Fatts. Hustlers and Shysters are everywhere.....trying to make a buck the sleezy way.

Are they wrong for taking advantage of the incompetents or is the incompetent wrong for being an idiot and getting taken advantage of? Good and Bad are labels for experience of a polarity...anything more is semantics.

I'm no 'darksider' and I'm no 'lightsider'.......and I acknowledge that both are only points of view and only exist so we can label certain experiences as such for more convenient communication. Neither are any better or worse but only two sides of the same coin.

What would Batman be without the Joker? I say he'd be awfully fucking bored and since there existed no opposite polarity for balance.

I am a 'me-sider'.......I look out for me and my progression. If I can help someone find their path along the way by cracking a few eggs of knowledge then so be it. I will never presume to know what is best for another person.......their experience is entirely up to them and their higherself.

Tarheel: You're indifferent to the

You're indifferent to the peeps that hijacked your kid ? Love ya to death, but you're lying.

I had hope you would have learned the difference in right & wrong through the years, because there is a right & wrong, good & bad and it's not even a lamentable point. The people who cant tell the difference commit grave injustices and hide behind "there is no right or wrong". Psychopaths are SO hoping that a majority will subscribe as you have, and THAT will give them a way to justify their atrocities and face no retribution. But it is a simple fact.

As always I give you your free will.
What was it you labelled me.... love & flowers & hugs???? Let's get together tonight and build a campfire and sing Kum-bah-Ya.

This may be THE funniest treat I've EVER sent. It is certainly THE most annoying. Picked it up at Hellfest (dude!).

Quinton: To add to this point I would

To add to this point I would say there are consequences to actions and those consequences may be deemed right or wrong by humans. For example, if you kill somebody there are going to be consequences. If you think negativity all the time there are going to be consequences. Just as there are consequences for helping others or even saving a life. Every action/choice comes with the consequences of that choice, some may see the consequence as good, others as bad. But the consequence itself is just indifferent energy fulfilling the action.

As Caroline Myss says, "There is no such thing as a right or wrong choice. What matters is the attitude that led you to make that choice. [...] What matters is the motivation behind the choice."

And as Robert Kiyosaki says, "There are 3 sides to a coin: heads, tails and the edge."

We get trapped in heads or tails when we should be outside observing it all on the edge. Just like we get trapped in our body when we are not our body. Just like we get trapped in our mind when we are not our mind. We get caught up in the drama, which is fine. But as others have said, while we're in the drama we're caught in the game of taking sides. It's just a game. Just like chess. Just like a video game. We're caught up in a game with human labels and dynamics. And at the human level there are human dynamics. But at the non-human level there are also dynamics at play.

I'm with you that I like seeing good too. But we forget that everything is both good and bad and everything is neither good nor bad. You can say that all things that we call bad are still good because they are God Energy. It's not possible for the universe to do something that isn't good. Good might not be the right word for it. But it's not possible for the universe to not do the right thing. The universe can only do the right thing. The universe can only output the consequences for all the data feeding into it. So even the things we call bad are still good. They're still within the constructs of energy, the universe, God.

This is why I think this is such an important discussion. This stuff is the foundation to everything. Religion is based upon good and bad. Governments are based upon good or bad. We essentially teach labels in this world rather than dynamics. We educate what's good or bad rather than consequences of choice. We don't understand the dynamics of the universe, instead we have somebody else's opinion guide us. We let people shape reality into words and words into our reality. And then we try to find our way out of the game through the very words that trap us. It's really, really tricky.

Let's use the killing example again because it's probably the most extreme human example. Say somebody kills my son. Is it always bad? Is it always good? Or does it depend? What if it puts me in a depression so bad that it leads me to finally reach a part of my self that would have taken 1,000 other lifetimes to reach? What if because of this "bad" event I now finally reach the ability to love unconditionally? What if I now finally learn how to let go of everything and live in the present moment of now? What if because of this bad thing I now become 1,000 time better as a spirit? And how do we know this bad thing wasn't perfectly calculated or even arranged at a higher level? I think it was. And I have read too many spiritual books that confirm this belief.

I just don't think the immediate good or bad gut response is always the most accurate. We have this gut response for a reason and there is obviously value to it. But there is always more to each story. And there are 3 sides to each coin: heads, tails and the edge. I think the edge is where we want to be.

Tarheel: I see your points.

I don't believe it is always "cut & dry". There are degrees of good (heads) and bad(tails) that reside in/on the edge (gray). Fortunately or unfortunately, the gray has overtaken the poles. Imagine that-the coin resides on it's side more than it does on it's front or back.

Do we agree that there is more darkness in today's world than light? I hope we do. I would say that Light is making ever-increasing strides, though. I can feel that, and I also can feel the struggle(can I ever!). I feel it all the time, like I am some sort of conduit.
Yet another wish of mine is that I can help quicken the pace of the incoming Light. That is actually a firmly held intention.

As always, I respect anyone's right to agree or disagree.

Quinton: I'm saying that the side of

I'm saying that the side of the coin is outside of heads and tails, not the gray area in-between. Just like how Democrat and Republican are false dichotomies, good and bad are also false dichotomies.

Darkness is the absence of light. So there isn't 2 things here, there is only 1. Light contains both good and bad. So bad is not the same as darkness. And good and bad isn't so much about right and wrong as it is about blue or red, it's preference. Again, this is where words start to make discussions like this tricky because they mean different things to different people. Light and darkness are not opposites. Light is energy and energy contains all possibilities and not all possibilities are what we may like and what we don't like may be called bad and what we do like may be called good. But these are all just interpretations of light. So light isn't always good either. Light has good and bad in it depending on how we choose to see it.

Also, as others have said, as individuals it makes no difference how much good or bad is going on around us. As individuals we have 100% power to do anything and whatever we want at any time. No negativity or evil things have any effect on us unless we allow for it, as most do. So regardless of how much bad or good things are happening around us, we have the choice to make any reality for ourselves that we want at any time. That is a big part of playing this very duality game -- to reach this realization.

That's kind of the point I'm getting at. The game of good and bad is a drama that different people play out. We ultimately can't control every little detail of it and that's the beauty of it. It's a game and we're here playing in it. We can have some effect on the whole of everything as can others. We all push and pull the mass game in different ways. At any time we can pull ourselves out and stop playing in the game. We play the game, we learn from the game and then we step outside of the game.

Tarheel: Light

For this argument, I refer to Light as it pertains to Truth. You and most others who know me probably know/knew that.

To visit your points, the context in which I view Light in this post, I would say there is Light and there are degrees of Darkness. And I meant that gray is a degree of darkness.

I seriously respect (or try to) everyone's opinion, and sometimes my passion makes me seem as if I'm being more combative than I usually intend. I hope nobody is offended. When I feel someone has an alternate agenda, I get a tad more tiffed. No injury should be read into my prose on any account.

But I asked this before-Am I the only person who's feeling the ebb-n-flow of the tidal wave it feels like we're on? It's getting more regular and frequent and stronger.

pasqualie: Want is lack

Want is lack, you want something because you dont have it, you want to control something because you have no control. You focus on want and control, and you get more lack and feel out of control. Its just the way it works, what you resist persists, because you focus your awareness and energy on the negative.

Tarheel: Please don't act as if you know me.

You don't know me.
I am quite content with myself and admit my Earthly transgressions and try to improve myself. Perhaps you should do the same as opposed to trying to act as if you have it all figured out. It's your choice.

Tarheel: Re: your questions

If you want questions answered, look in the mirror.
I'm not the answer man and I don't owe you NOR do you owe me any answer/reply ever*.

*The preceding reply contained zero venom and was meant to be totally neutral. In the event that any was read into it, that would mean there exists an extreme, this blowing the false ideology that "there is no right or wrong, good nor bad" out of the water. However, subscribing to that very premise would indicate an inability to fathom the fact that very ideology is an attack on Free Will, which is exactly what it is-among other things.

obsrvantlouie: The point

I was trying to make is that 'good and bad' only exist as labels and we aren't born into this physical world with an instruction manual of what is good or bad. It is about spiritual progression and I cannot emphasize that enough.

Being bad has many 'good' qualities......defiance, rebellion, tenacity, persistence, individuality.....I think these are inherently 'good' qualities that are needed in order to succeed in life but typically they are associated with being 'bad'. I think the super hero example works here......think about how the justice league and the avengers always work 'together' to save the 'victims'. Think about how the villains are always 'loners'. Even when the villains do sometimes work together it always ends in a double cross because the villain doesn't want to share the spoils OR doesn't want to concede that he needed help from someone else. The villain is the ultimate 'INDIVIDUAL'....saying fuck you and your rules, I'm going to do what I want even at the expense of others. Now, I don't agree of taking action at the expense of others and if Dr. Doom came to town and started fucking with my shit I'm sure I'd defend myself. No differently then when/if fema comes to town trying to make me take a vaccination....I'd defend myself.

My point is that there are many many 'good' qualities that stereotypically (yes I made up a word) associated with being 'bad'. Does it work the other way around? Are there any bad qualities that are associated with being good? Yes there are but for these you have too look deeper because of social/belief systems in play.

Is it good that some hero has to go around saving everyone? Is it good that the U.S. claimes it needs to police the world? Why can't these individuals learn to save themselves? Is it good that some hero presumes to know what is best for another and therefore 'saves' them.....NOT UNLIKE.....the governments are trying to do by FORCING vaccination under the guise of 'ITS FOR YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY". Well, what gives Superman the right to tell me what is good for me? Maybe when I was getting pick pocketed and robbed on the street it was because I was a piece of shit and owed someone money? Maybe a good ass kicking is all I needed to get my life in line (this is hypothetical BTW..... :) but i

It's like Quinton's examples......just because the initial experience may seem do you know it won't lead to something 'heavenly' do we know an 'unpleasant' or 'undesirable' will or will not lead the person to a higher path that may have taken 1,000 years otherwise to attain? We don' why judge it?

What good comes from any judgement?

To me.....the schmuck is no better or worse than the hustler. And the hero is no better or worse than the villain. And yes, life is most easy when you view experience from the edge of the coin. I don't want to be terrorized by a super villain anymore than I want to be saved by a super hero. I want to be in control of me and my life.

This is such a great issue like Q said because it truly is at the heart of 'life as we know it' and all the control systems in place. The ideologies of good and bad create every decision and non decision. Therefore, those in control or in power to decide what is 'good or bad' are those who make the RULES that govern us.

Well, what if I don't agree with those rules? Does that make me a bad person? People have this horrible view on others who use food stamps and I'm like.....WHY? Let me get this are mad at someone for using government assistance that they qualify for? Typical response will be 'yea, but they don't really need it and are just lazy and they should get a job'. FUCK IT! They are lazy....but there are also smart because they realize all the government has ever done for them is lie, steal the land and resources and cheat so why not take their money if you can get your hands on it. Maybe your just jealous they are taking advantage of the government and your not because your conformist attitude holds you back.

Dave Chappelle had a great quote that comes to mind.....“The worst thing to call somebody is crazy. It's dismissive. "I don't understand this person. So they're crazy." That's bullshit. These people are not crazy. They are strong people. Maybe their environment is a little sick.”

There are many things that too me are 'undesirable' and there are many things that too me are 'fortunate'......but my view on these events differs from others.....does that make me wrong or bad?

Tarheel: We cool & "No"(to answer your last question)

I never had an issue with you believing as you do. I just don't share all your beliefs with you, so I chimed in my part.

Well constructed argument,OL. I do SERIOUSLY believe that TPTB seriously want people to subscribe to the fact that there isn't right or wrong/good or bad-and here's why. I feel they want people to believe they don't have the right to judge something good or bad, right or wrong.

THAT means 2 HUGE things for them.
1) It's the beginning of them taking OUR free will away (which won't happen)
2) It gives them an OUT for piss-poor behavior that we've all witnessed.

pasqualie: you are making an assumption there is only 2 sides of a coin

when infact there is 3, heads, tails and the edge.

so you dont have to choose anyone elses side but your own. your journey here is about you, and not some cosmic battle, or some grand crusade to change the world and make it all the same. because of polarity that will never happen.

so choosing not to choose is in fact strengthening your free wil, in that you choose not to be engaged in the dramas happening around you. of course some people have a need to do things to feel good, or engaging in dramas is fun, and that is ok also, again there is no right or wrong, it just depends on what incarnational stage you are at, that you will resonate with certain things in this world. and that can only really be understood when you arrive at the latter stages in hindsight. it all serves a purpose whether it be just contrast when you look back or to cause you to become restless and realize certain paths will just go in endless circles and it doesnt serves you in raising your vibration and consciousness, by engaging in polarities or choosing sides in dramas.

Tarheel: Quinton pointed that out to me earlier.

My soul isn't for sale. My Free Will isn't negotiable. I don't believe I will ever give up my belief in right & wrong, good & bad and I am CERTAIN I won't relinquish my right to express myself/my beliefs as I so choose.
I am a work-in-progress and I reserve the right to change my mind as info pours in, which I do with regularity.

If polarity didn't exist, this would be an awfully boring place. That doesn't mean I have to like bad or wrong.

pasqualie: there isnt right or wrong choice

its up to the person if they want to play the judgment game.

if you like playing the game, you get to to stay on the chessboard thinking you can change the board with is the disinformation that is spread to keep you on the chess board.

if you engage and like it, it just means you stay in the game. its just the consciousness level and incarnation level you are at, where trying to win and picking sides appeals to you. some have moved beyond that and have gone to another consciousness level to see what it is. the polarity game, in politics good cop bad cop playing on the same team. most new ages see this, but they dont see lightsider darksider as good cop bad cop playing on the same team also. meant to keep you in polarity and stuck in the game. both keep your consciousness level and energy low and stuck in the matrix.

for those who dont, well they dont have to play, just go through experience, and at the end exit by not going into the false light to be recycled back.

there is no right or wrong, everyone has free choice, so if they like playing the game they should keep playing it. and those that dont, dont have to either.

the illusion is thinking the board will change but the system cant be changed. so people think if they remove one tyrant then the board changes. but it doesnt, another tyrant just takes its place.

just like in new age they think well the andromedans, and the pleidians will come and save us and remove the reptilian queen, well there is a thousand other rebel reptilian queens ready to take her place. even the syrian wolf king, they kill each other so they can take the place of the old king. so players change but the board does not.

Tarheel: However....

...we still love ya, OL.
I hold faith that you will at least consider The Light-side at some juncture. I distinctly remember you saying that you favored a balance between the twon. That means you recognize extremes and THAT, my friend, was a start!
Caveat-There isn't, nor was there ever, ANY attempt at being venomous in my responseS in this forum post.

I tried to pick out a dark/light treat for you. Hope you like it...

pasqualie: Its more about observing and experiencing

You will go through life experiencing and observing contrasts. This is to distinguish what you like and dont like. Some people experience lives of crime and violence. it is what they have chosen and are meant to experience. Then you get concepts of light and dark, and even nationalism, your country against another. And its skewed into perspectives of propaganda in good against evil. All teach and promote separation to keep you in polarity. At some point along your journey, you realize both pull you into polarity, and the only way you get out of polarity is not judging. You go inwards, and release all the propaganda and negative programming you were taught,

Everyone gets out the game also, doesnt matter who you are, what you have done. its just a matter of if you get out individually and faster, or you get out the really really slow way by waiting for mass consciousness to slowly evolve over millions of years.

So two perspectives on this as well, i want to be a hero, save humanity, eliminate all the injustice in the world.

Or see it as someone telling you to wait till they are ready, before you can go. And the place where you wait is not a pleasant place.

Given that situation, you make decisions on what resonates with you.

pasqualie: Louie

Its not a matter of definition, but from where alpha is coming from its really a matter of perspective. He believes this 3d matrix or game board as he understands it is about progressing off the game board by winning the game, by having the king on one side of polarity down representing a cause or side in polarity whether it be a moral or ideological goal. And in a way he believes actions can save or have everyone or others progress along with him in the journey off the board. The board is checkered in light and dark squares representing polarity and duality. He sees its as a linear sequential progression where once the battle on the one board or part of the board is won, then all the dark squares will turn light and the polarity will dissapear. He also believes in in part the we are one, so we should all advance and go free at the same time, thinking it will be immediate and instanteous or perhaps he believe everyone should advance at the same time or rate regardless of duration, therefore identifying with group consciousness advancement or planetary advancement, Which is essentially the sequential path of instead of advancing individually, everyone should all advance together at the slow rate and all get off at the same time, even though it may mean greater durations of time. Its why the philosophy of the ET's is we are one, meaning planetary consciousness and sequential incarnation evolving slowly as the mass consciousness evolves as a unit, so they may all advance along also, rather than some get on the elevator and jump ship on their own.

Its why the concept of oneness is taught which is not a bad one, but it has a hidden meaning of advance at group consciousness or planetary consciousness, and not individually.

Which basically means stay in that shit hole until everyone else is ready to leave, and the good, bad and neutral Et's are caught up and ready to leave also. Cuz they dont want you to get out before them. Its why alot of these people who say they are drop ins, teach mass or group consciousness on a planetary level advancement which is sequential incarnation. And dont want you realize you are simultaneous incarnation, so you can advance individually and get out quicker.

So even if planet earth becomes One, you get to graduate onto the level of galactic polarity which will still take millions if not billions more years to be resolved where everyone eventually advances slowly on the level of planetary or group consciousness to get out together.

pasqualie: so its really about the perception

the all for one and one for all, which also means you have to wait around till everyone agrees on the same thing before something is done. kind of like waiting for all the traffic lights to turn green before you can go somewhere.

or if you can get out on your own, do so, because if you go at the other pace, you will be waiting a long time in the shit hole before you will leave, because not everyone in the shithole thinks its a shithole, so they like it,

its why even Simon Parkes who I think is a good person, says humanity must advance as a whole or group, so the other ET's can piggy back off humanity.

ionic: good points

I enjoyed the bit about consequences being the determining factor in whether an action is deemed right or wrong.

I think it is quite limited, however. Much of our moral judgment, as a human, only pertains to other people. stealing may be a bad thing to do to someone else, but can you steal from the earth? can you steal from the plants and animals? can you kill oceans and rainforests? these are all bad things too but isnt thought of as inherently bad. its the consequences of those actions that determine imo.

all our ideas go out the door though once we leave a human mindframe. With the universe is vast and diverse as it surely is, I couldnt see there being a static yin yang, persay, least not in 3d.

good stuff folks!

pasqualie: So Alpha

If you want to go sequential and stay in polarity, there is no right or wrong decision. Its just people should be aware of the choice that to pick sides and play the game means you get pulled down into the sludge of mass consciousness. Which means you evolve very very slowly in consciousness as the good and bad ET's. Or you can choose individually to go ahead of mass consciousness and raise it up and get out of the game or matrix way ahead of human consciousness, because if you dont, it means you are stuck in the matrix for a millions of more years, until humanity finally decides not to engage in polarity and stay stuck.

Everyone gets out eventually, even the orions and syrians. They just will be the last to get out, so its a question of if you want to keep them company while they figure it out along with em and deal with their stuff, or do you want to get out on your own quickly and go free.

Tarheel: Quinton

Back to your original post, I see what you are saying, BUT you have caveats throughout ("it depends").
Caveats create what a lot of people call "gray area".
Gray area opens the door (and succumbs to) to the premise that there are 2 extremes/sides/poles.
I don't think we can deny the fact that polarity exists.
You like anarchy. If there isn't any good or bad/right or wrong, we would have anarchy on an unprecedented scale.
I do not expect everyone to see it as I do.
OMG, I tried to pick THE most annoying version I could find (as if the tune itself isn't appalling enough). Hope this gives you a chuckle.

pasqualie: There is no grey area in judgment Alpha

When you judge someone or some event or group. You are actually judging yourself or something in yourself. That potential you do not like in someone or others, also exists inside you. Thats why its causes polarization and separates you from yourself and source and others.

Tarheel: Agreed

Separation is an illusion.

pasqualie: This world and universe in 3d and 4d

as i said it is coded in polarity, so there is good and evil. beings who enjoy suffering control and pain of others and beings who want peace joy and love.

its how this fish bowl in 3d and 4d is coded so you either work on getting out of the fish bowl into 5d, or you stay in the fish bowl in 3d and 4d and pick sides and fight battles.

so with that nature defined, its really up to the individual if they want to get out, or stay in the fish bowl picking sides and fighting battles.

the grid or blue print of the 3rd and 4th dimension being the checker board of polarity. players may change, but the board doesnt.

Tim Lovell: Pasqualie you have made your

Pasqualie you have made your point (and personally I asbsolutly agree with you) but let them come to their own conclusions , it it the same thing again we alwas say , but it is true ... every dynamic `new` point that is made , describes a whole new holotype .... , just let it play out ...

Tim Lovell: As I always said quntifing

As I always said quntifing `ANYTHING` is the FIRST mistake ! ... get it? quantification is the greatest mistake `science` ever made OK?


The Seeker: I suggest looking into

I suggest looking into various works composed by Friedrich Nietzsche.

435: Great post.

Great post.

Life is what you make it. Good? Bad? Evil? Awesome? All of it experience.

A post like this one will be a hard object to lift for many who are new to looking outside the "box" of religion, it takes time to get out of the "boxes" since there are several to get out of (usually) and one finds themselves getting out of one small box and over time they come to see that they are in a box still, but this one is bigger, etc...

Life is great and life is love.

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