Red Elk's Medicine Message of Worlds Within Worlds

by Chris on September 23rd, 2014

Movies such as Journey To The Center Of The Earth evoke exotic images of strange creatures, precious stones, wondrous waterfalls, singing crystals, mysterious tunnels, and grand cities. For some adventurous ones, such exotic themes also stimulate images of lost cultures, buried archives of secret information, and fantastic treasures beyond description.

And then there are the old reports of tall, luminescent, wise beings existing somewhere within an Inner Earth, visited by men of such unimpeachable integrity as Admiral Richard E. Byrd. Of course other legends recount not-so-nice creatures of a dark underworld, the likes of which you don’t really care to visit. And what about the super-deep and mysterious caverns and “holes” that some have explored? What about the reports of strange sounds and bizarre sights coming from somewhere within these curious underground locations?

So - what is fantasy and what is truth concerning that which may or may not exist beneath our feet?

What about the technically advanced, often intimidating beings from elsewhere - called gods (with a small g) in some languages - who seem to have had a lot to do with the early development of planet Earth and her lifeforms? Where are they now?

Are there LAYERS, of a sort, to the structure of planet Earth - like floors in a highrise office building? And could there be lifeforms - insulated from each other for various reasons - living within these layers? Or moving fluently through strata of rock as if in a swimming pool?

Some profess to know a great deal about such matters. It is part of their role, at this time of The Great Awakening, as keepers of ancient knowledge and teachers of long-hidden Truth.

One such teacher is the wise Zulu Shaman and Elder, Credo Mutwa, who we first featured in the October 1999 issue of The SPECTRUM. Another such gifted soul is the subject of this interview - a most gracious and interesting character known as Red Elk.

Red Elk is an Inter-Tribal Native American Medicine Man. He is a self-described “half-breed” Native American from both the BlackFoot and Shoshoni Nations, as well as being part Irish and French.

He is a member of the Heyoka (hi–OH–kah), a contrarian group of Native American “lost boys”. He is, furthermore, one of twelve Inner Heyoka. Red Elk is one of the last nine members of the Red Web Society, who are working to bring true understanding to Earth.

He is Official Keeper of the Tunnels, Official Keeper of the Pyramids, the Temporary Caretaker of the Flying-Red-Dragon Drum - a very sacred symbol of the Hopi nation; he is likewise the Altar Carrier of the Native Nations. Red Elk is regarded - by both Whites and Native Americans - as the bridge between the Native people and ALL other religions - including the atheists. (Now there’s a challenging position in itself !)

Red Elk was the featured guest on Art Bell’s late-night talk-radio program on Wednesday night/Thursday morning December 12, 2001. Those of you who listened to that program with any interest were probably a bit dismayed as Art adopted a rather disjointed and impatient (perhaps even abrupt or rude) manner at times with this very wise yet humble guest.

Red Elk did his best to just “go along with the flow” of the evening. The information which Red Elk attempted to share in the familiar story-telling style of his cultural heritage seemed to annoy Art, causing interruptions and derailments that did not allow a most interesting narrative to naturally unfold.

So, after hearing this disappointing broadcast, we here at The SPECTRUM invited Red Elk to share his message in this much more “peaceful” and appreciative forum - promising no interruptions or other irritating distractions. Red Elk quickly accepted our written invitation with a thoughtful return phone call. He then further honored us by blessing the success of this magazine, and saying this forum serves an important and unique teaching purpose.

On a more human level, Red Elk is a most humble and sincere man, with a great, yet often subtle and self-effacing sense of humor.

(He is also a longtime accomplished cartoonist - a teller of stories, with humor, in pictures - with his self-portrait being displayed nearby. This was lifted from the “signature” at the bottom of a recent written note congratulating us on the new magazine format for The SPECTRUM, and encouraging us to: “Now get it on the magazine stands in a big way! Aho! ”)

He is coming up rapidly on his 61st year, in a few months, and has received, by his own recollection, over 41 years of ancient wisdom training.

I asked Red Elk for some additional biographical information that could precede the actual interview, and here is what he had to say:

Red Elk: I was born in 1942, in Ellenburg, Washington. At - my mother says from the first year, I don’t recall it - the Indian’s Yakima Nation, at the rodeo, their last Wakian (or holy, medicine man) came and saw me at that year. I don’t recall it, but I do recall every year since.

In my 4th year, we moved to Detroit. Before moving, the Elder, who came every year, came to the family after the rodeo, something he never did before, ever. He put his arm across my shoulder, and for the first time in anybody’s memory, spoke English. We didn’t know he knew how, really.

He told my mother:

“One day, this young boy will grow up to do many great things amongst his people.”

And then he just put his hand on my head and smiled down at me, and walked off. We never saw him again.

And his people, I’m not sure if they were the Whites, or the Indians, or what, but nevertheless, my mother, who despised Indians, all but Chief - we all called him Chief - she just had a great regard for this gentleman, as well as all the people in the Nation, of the Yakimas. She always feared I’d grow up, someday, to be Indian. I never realized that. I always thought I was. Mom is much more Indian than I am, but was always fearful that one day I’d go bush.

Anyway, at 4 it was predicted that this would be - in short, without saying it, I would be a medicine man, and evidently Wakian, a holy man, as well.

And I started my lessons at age 10. Heyoka means contrary, or the backward people, the people who go to the beat of a different drum; the people who used to hop on their horses and say “I hate you” to mean “I love you”; and they’d hop on the horse backwards and ride off.

I was more or less born Heyoka. I was kind of wild. I did strange things. I was raised in Detroit, more or less in the streets, in and around Detroit. It was kind of fun. People thought I was crazy there.

I used to belong to what they called the Hood Blades, one of the gangs in Detroit. In the gang I was the only one who never had to be initiated. Initiation was pretty rough. I asked them why. And they told me, because they thought I was crazy; they thought I’d kill’em. I don’t know why, I really don’t. They were afraid of me.

I was a mediator, more than a fighter. And when I would fight, I would, literally, take on 3, when someone would take on 1; or I would take on 10, when someone would take on 1 or 2. And, frankly, the reason for it was, I knew I couldn’t fight worth a dang, and I was going to lose, so I was going to go down looking good, fighting a lot more than I - you know, I couldn’t beat one, let alone all of them, but I looked good. And it went well with the gang.

In 9th grade I only went 32 days. The rest of the time, nobody could find me because I was out trapping, and tracking, and hunting, right in downtown Detroit. They had little fills between factories, and stuff. I’d be out there with rat-traps trapping quail, and pheasants, tracking deer alongside the polluted creeks and waters, right by the big auto factories.

But nobody could find me. And if I wasn’t out there, I was in the library, studying. Because they don’t teach people what they should teach in school. Reading, writing, and arithmetic, and understanding history, that’s about all you really need - unless you deliberately feel like you want to be a doctor or a scientist. But to be able to read right, and do basic math, is all people need. And that’s all I needed.

Other things here are much more important to me, the things of the spirit, and the things of doing, knowledgeable things. In my case, survival techniques, stealth, hiding and stuff, even as a kid.

But nevertheless, I quit high school at the age of 15. They called me to find out why I wasn’t going to school when it started. And I told them: “Look, I’m going to be 16 here in another 5 months or so, and I’m going to walk right out the door. So I’m not coming in. Why waste your time and mine. I have better things to do.” I had to learn spiritual things, and you can’t learn that in the school.

My training just went on the rest of my life. 8½ years on the black side, to know the enemy - you know, the dark side. 2½ years at a non-denominational Bible college, which was interdenominational, taught by many, many Christians, and teachers, denominations, as well as bringing in people from other religions and stuff - a good education.

In the Inner Heyoka, of which I’m a member, which is the highest calling anyone can get into, I am what they call a master envisioner, or a high-master envisioner. And my training to do that lasted from the age of 10 until, gosh, until ’54. So, I can envision what is needed. I can’t do things for self, I just had to learn; then I had to turn it back. I learn these things so that I can teach these things.

Well, anyway, I’m just a common Joe. I put my pants on like any other Heyoka, which is over your head, before you figure out you got them on upside-down.

Heyoka means contrary, backwards, the one who does things that go to a different drummer. Actually, our prisons are full of Heyokas, although they don’t know that’s what they are - untrained, unaimed Heyokas.

The Heyoka Society started ages and ages ago, when some kids were getting in trouble within Nations, and some Elders got together and said:

“What are we going to do with these kids?”

You know, juvenile delinquents, Indians.

And nothing they were doing was doing any good because they were so backwards, so contrary. They decided to make a Boy Scouts of America, in a sense, for Indians; to make a special society, and they called the society The Heyoka.

What happened was, they’d take these bad boys, bad girls, and gave them the unique ability of “being different”, allowing them to be different, but under control. Suddenly, these people, these young kids, had a reason, they had a pride; they weren’t bad anymore. They belonged to a society, their own.

And, in time of war, the Heyokas, in any given tribe, or small set of teepees, or whatever, if they were under attack, the Heyokas would run to the Society teepee, and sit inside and play bone games, and smoke, and have fun.

Everybody else out there is dying, and killing, until somebody would run in and dive through the door and yell: “Don’t get your bows and arrows. And don’t go kill the enemy.” And then leave.

And boy, that’s all they were waiting for. Nobody tells a Heyoka to do a damn thing. So, they’d do the opposite. And they were good fighters, especially in the BlackFoot.

Your Heyoka people, most of those, turned out to be Dog Soldiers, and excellent Dog Soldiers. And these are people who would take a long line of horse hair or leather, tie it to their waist, and stake themselves out - about 20-30 feet of line. And they would go right into the middle of a battle and stake themselves there, and they would fight to the death. And usually didn’t die, either. They were pretty good killers.

And then, the Inner Heyoka, that is something only the very wisest and oldest Elders in our Nation of Indians, no matter what Nation, and those are few in existence who know of the Inner Heyoka, who hear rumors of a society in existence that has been in existence since (to them) time became. Most of them have no idea who they are, other than the fact that these are very, well, I guess you call them very special, spiritual people.

That’s rumor; they know about it. But the vast majority of any Indian Nation know nothing about it. It’s just a very, very few. I doubt if there’s more than 26 left alive who even have heard rumors of it.

I was invited to be an Inner Heyoka. A bunch came to me, men and women, came right through the door; they were spirits, Indian people. And they stood there, and I gave honor, and they gave talk. Right here, right where I’m at.

At that very moment, I couldn’t understand why these spirits had come to me. Finally, they asked if I would like to be a member of their society. And I said “What society is this?”

And they said “Inner Heyokas”.

And I said “Gee, I don’t know. I don’t know much about it, at all.”

And they went on to explain where it started, and what it consisted of. It all sounded good.

But, I don’t do things without checking with the Creator. So, I told them that. First, I’d have to check and see, ’cause I ain’t gonna do it unless God Himself says so.

So, I did. I prayed.

And the Creator said “Yes”. That’s all He said, “Yes”.

And I opened my eyes, and I looked at them, and I said “Yes”.

And from there on in, things really started skyrocketing in my spiritual life. At that time, shortly thereafter, I was taken for a great ceremony and given the name of Red Elk, which I didn’t like. I can think of better names for myself. Red Elk, to me, sounded like a very dumb name. And it was about a year later that I was told WHY I was given the name Red Elk. Now, I’m very honored.

Black Elk, in the book, Black Elk Speaks, Black Elk was a great prophet, Wakian. And he foretold of the coming of the White man, and how the White man would intersect and intercede the ways, i.e., the religions, the spiritual touch, as well as life, of the Indians.

I’ve been given the name Red Elk because I foretell; my job is to foretell that the White ways are going away, and the Red ways are returning.

The Black Elk Speaks gentleman told of how the White man’s religion would encroach upon ours.

I, in turn, say now: It is the Red man’s religion - the thirst for the spiritual touch of the mind, the Face of God, in and through Nature, as well as to Him, personally, the Way of the True Indian Touch - it’s coming to the Whites. And, believe me, IT IS!

There are so many Whites - it’s unbelievable - who thirst. Not all have Indian blood. There’s a tremendous amount who do, just a little speck. And they’ve been searching and searching and searching.

I’ve been ordered to teach. And Mr. Bell’s show [with over 20 million radio listeners] kind-of really put me “out-there”. And I’ve got hundreds of people wanting to learn. I’m starting a website; it’s raw. The news will go worldwide, how to get in touch with the Creator - your spiritual growth. The thing that matters to every man and woman, every child, is not how many cars you can drive, not how big a house you can own.

That’s nice, and there’s nothing wrong with it. But with nothing but an empty heart, and a thirst that can’t be quenched, IT IS NOTHING! And though I’m a poor man, I’m probably a richer man than most men on Earth.

And so, there it is.

Rick: And, to me, the term Red Elk also implies the Red Road.

Red Elk: Oh, it does, it does. Black Elk implies the Black Road. And in the circle, there’s a cross, or a straight line across, and a straight line up and down. And one is Red, and the other is Black, and they intersect.

At one time, there was only one line, and on each end of the line was a color, the color Red; and it’s called the Red Road. But then the Black came in, and crossed over it, just sliced right through it, didn’t break it, just sliced right through it. That is called the White Road, even though it’s Black - it’s the darkness of not knowing.

And now, those colors are reversed. Where the Black Road had Black, it is now Red; where the Red had Red, it is now Black.

The Indian Way of how to get back to God, in purity, it very much concerns scripture; it very, very much concerns the Koran; it very much concerns Buddha. It concerns every religion, regardless of what that religion thinks or feels or believes about each other. Any religion, and they ALL, with one exception, all religions, all cultures, are trying to find the Face of the Creator, and they’re doing so in their own cultural way.

The one exception are those who are perfectly possessed, who deliberately want to be that way, and go against God in all ways. That is the only religion that is NOT seeking the Creator, and in truth, seeking love. Those ones seek nothing but power and self-gratification.

That was what Red Elk had to say about himself by way of introductory comments. Quite a bit to think about, don’t you agree?

To communicate with Red Elk directly, please write to him at: P. O. Box 166, Thorp, WA 98946. Keep in mind that Red Elk has very limited financial means; therefore, if you would like a response to your communication, please enclose a self-addressed, STAMPED envelope. And be patient!

Also be sure and keep an eye on the Internet website which, as it grows and evolves, will be featuring much information about Red Elk, his messages, and his public activities.

Now, if you think that some of my past stories have stretched and challenged your view of the world, prepare yourself for what you are about to read. Red Elk’s powerful words of spiritual Truth and universal Insight stand out like shining gems - perhaps even beacons of Light - to be discovered along the winding road of his commentaries, discussions, and personal opinions of shared experience.

You may agree; you may disagree. Ones should always go within to discern what is Truth for themselves. But I can say, without hesitation, that what Red Elk has to offer is fascinating to contemplate and, in some instances, perhaps remarkable beyond belief.

[Editor’s note: It should be pointed out here, as an aside, that this discussion with Red Elk completely sidesteps the “dangerous” realm of secret MILITARY underground bases and related shenanigans - a subject well known to most readers of this publication and to Red Elk. Those of you who may be new to that subject should at least go back and re-read Rick Martin’s recent UFO feature series. Rather, the focus of this interview is other interesting things going on under our feet - besides what one particular secret faction of the military are up to, in conjunction with certain alien races here on planet Earth.]

There are, naturally, occasional problems with semantics - what we mean by what we say - especially when addressing complicated or otherwise multi-faceted topics, and especially those which are often dealt with through allegory or symbolic imagery. But longtime readers of this magazine have grown in recognition and discernment of such matters. It’s unavoidable when spanning vast cultural issues.

By his own admission, Red Elk says he often comes across more like a Bible preacher than a Native American medicine man. Remember that one of his jobs at this time is the bridging of the gap between the Native Americans and other cultures. And nowhere is that artificial gap wider than over formalized religious differences - differences that don’t truly exist at the fundamental core of Truth. Cutting through that jungle of differences, when such arises, takes patience and meeting others at least half-way.

Red Elk feels that another aspect of his job at this time of The Great Awakening here on planet Earth is - no surprise here - the awakening of the great natural abilities, birthright gifts from God (with a capital G), that are sleeping within all of us. A truly good teacher - particularly a “contrarian” of such stature from the Inner Heyoka - is going to be pretty clever and unexpected and demanding in methodology to “shake you up” as part of opening up your mind to possibilities.

And speaking of which, here’s a first as far as requests go, considering all the various interviews I have shared in this publication over the years: During the initial contact with Red Elk, he requested that a woman be present during the interview, so that the “female perspective” would be represented. Red Elk feels that the female energy looks at the world in a different way, thus asking different questions that may never occur to a male interviewer.

Honoring his request, my wife, Gail Cortright, joined me on February 15, 2002, for this lively conversational interview, which lasted well over three hours.

Hold on for quite a ride and, again, make an effort to always look for the fundamental Truth which Red Elk is sharing - and don’t get lost in any details you may have trouble agreeing with.

Rick Martin: What we are curious about, and all of our readers will be curious about, is the Inner Earth, and all of the worlds, the supposedly 5 worlds, under us. And yet, after reading your document [a powerful 24-page booklet titled The Agendas], I want to skip all that and go straight to the War in the Heavens. But, I guess they’re both so related, we’ll cover both.

Red Elk: It’s a doozy.

Rick Martin: Let’s just jump right in. Don’t hold anything back.

[After some brief discussion with Red Elk about letting his dog out, and it being “our dime” paying for the telephone call, he made reference to one of “Mel’s dimes”.

Here he was referring to some extremely unusual “1943 Roosevelt dimes” that were discovered near Mel’s Hole and at another location, in a different state, where there’s a similar deep hole in the ground. You coin experts will immediately say:

“But there is no such thing as a 1943 Roosevelt dime!”

And that’s where things start to get interesting. These dimes are not supposed to exist - at least not on this time-line!

Mel’s Hole is a seemingly bottomless pit on a parcel of private property in Washington state. It was dubbed Mel’s Hole when Art Bell first had Mel Waters on his program several years ago to describe the strange things associated with the hole that was on his property. After the publicity generated from Art’s initial program on this subject, secret government blackmail shenanigans started-up, which ultimately caused the government to now be in possession of his property.

Art most recently had Mel on his program Tuesday night/Wednesday morning 1/29-30/02 for a mindbending update of what had been happening lately with him. That’s a major story in itself, parts of which will be addressed by Red Elk as this interview progresses.]

Gail Cortright: What do you think; did those dimes really exist?

Red Elk: Oh, certainly. The hole exists, I go there quite often.

Gail Cortright: How did he get it out of the hole? Did it come out of the hole?

Red Elk: Yes.

Gail Cortright: How did it get out of the hole, is what I wonder.

Red Elk: We’ll talk about that first, ok? Are you ready?

Gail/Rick: We’re ready.

Red Elk: Mel’s Hole, does it exist? Absolutely. I first visited it in 1961, I believe, when my father and I were way up in the hills in an old Model-A or Model-T pickup truck. And he said: “I’ve got something I want to show you, son.”

We drove down from way up on top of Manastash Ridge, and he showed me this hole. He said “There’s no bottom.”

And I thought “big deal” at the time, and then we drove back the way we came. Nevertheless, I was there. Yes, the hole exists.

[Red Elk posted a note on the Art Bell Seattle area chat-club, online, concerning Mel’s Hole. Here’s what he wrote:

“Do not look for this hole. It is/can be extremely dangerous. It’s name is Lucifer’s Leap. One of the original holes dug-in by Lucifer to gain entry to #2 Earth (near the center of the Earth).

It is feared by all wildlife, and with good cause. Death emits from it. They Know. Ho.

At the same time, these deep holes come in pairs. Usually not far from each other, they are roughly 12-14 miles apart. Just as it is so with the one here in Washington.

Combining these Negative/Positive energy holes creates our Earth winds! This is the “stirring” in the atmosphere above us, Earth “round” that begets them (winds). Ho.

Other forces (black) are drawn to the “bad” holes to “inhale” these black energies and also to refuel their particular ships’ engine needs. The “Black Light” mentioned (on the Art Bell Mel’s Hole program) is the expelling of excess deep Earth’s inner energies. A “flushing” in a sense.

The oppositive (good) hole(s) do not radiate this black light; instead their light is purity and unseen. It is there, but unseen. It is our Earth Mother’s goodness and love that emits from these.

The turmoil of the two meeting high above is, in a sense, a form of energy warfare. Each trying to overpower the other, and in so doing the two forces act as a cooling “fan” to our Earth Mother’s skin. There are no “accidents”. All is designed to work together - black verses light equals perfect balance! Thus both are good - i.e., both are GO(O)D. Ho.

Anyway, Mr. Waters’ [talk] was done in bewilderment - looking for an answer. He was/is so “stunned”, he needed to know for his sanity. He had to know. Yes, he did a brave thing. I admire him for it. Ho. I am done. - Red Elk.]

Why it leaves these strange objects, dropping them on the ground, this is rather interesting.

Gail Cortright: That’s what I found pretty interesting.

Red Elk: They talk about the black light that comes out of this. Well, this is an expurging of the black energies of the [level] 2 and 3 inner-lands, Lucifer and his army’s inner-lands. It’s kind-of a flushing-out. And it IS black! And it creates a form of - oh, I don’t know - a really strange energy, and it mixes in our heavens. And this is not the only hole, or set, as you’ll find out, in existence on our planet.

There’s quite a number. Not far from that hole is ANOTHER ONE, that is also endless, that exerts an OPPOSITE color, an unseeable color. But those who can see, see it. You understand what I mean?

[Editor’s note: Red Elk is here referring to those who can see the higher-frequency energies often called etheric energies, like seeing auras around people.]

Gail/Rick: Yes.

Red Elk: The two - and these holes are usually 14, oh, not more than 25 miles apart. And the two go into the heavens, and the atmosphere above kind-of blocks it. And then the two mix together, and create the beginning of the Earth’s winds. That’s where our winds are actually born. It’s really interesting.

Gail Cortright: It’s very interesting.

Red Elk: Nevertheless, the other hole - these are so sacred, and so secret, that the Nations that know of these good holes say nothing about it. And so far, luckily, the one that is local, that is close to Mel’s Hole, it’s mate if you want, is unfound. And it will remain unfound. I’m just revealing that it’s there; I’m not going to tell where.

And besides, if you want to go there, good luck with the rattlesnakes. They’ve got good protection.

But, nevertheless, in this expurging, you’ve got to comprehend what dimension is all about. In this case, it deals almost wholly with parallel times.

Time, like with the watch on your hand, that type of time, and parallel times, are both identical in works. And I can easily explain that.

Get a deck of cards. What are there, 52 cards?

Hold them in your hand, above a table, and take the bottom card and set it on the table. Now take the next card and set it on top of the table card. Envisioning whatever you want, that card is sinking into the first card. And then, throw that second one on the floor somewhere.

So you have “merged” two cards, all the same thickness as the one, but now containing two. And you do that on, and on, and on, until the end of the deck.

Therefore, you end up with only “one” card, with all cards in it. This is parallel time. This is how that works, as well as physical time.

Actually, there is no time at all. Other than seasons, there is no time. But they both work on the same identical principal.

Rick Martin: Now, you mentioned on the Art Bell show the time cave. Is that the other spot you were referring to?

Red Elk: No.

Rick Martin: That’s something different?

Red Elk: That one, my friend, tells you what our future is.

Gail Cortright: Wow.

Red Elk: Or, it can take you into the past. But let’s get back to the main subject. This expurging, the black light, cuts through the whole deck of cards. Do you understand?

Gail Cortright: Yes.

Red Elk: Therefore, anything within that beam, passing through - human, dog - you know, the dog that came back to life?

[Editor’s note: This is referring to one of Mel’s friends who had - the story goes, told by Mel - placed his dead dog in the hole and then later saw it alive and well, walking around in the vicinity of the hole.]

If that’s true, I don’t know. But if the dog happens to be dropping when that black light comes, it could be very true.

Anyway, what it does is, it creates a force-field that would lift anything there, that’s within that beam, up. And, just like any wind blows anything, it gets thrown to the side.

And that’s what happened there [referring to the mystery dimes].

So, it literally cuts through all parallel times - all the cards in the deck - in one spot. And there are, again, many of these spots. And that’s how it goes.

Gail Cortright: So that dime was from a parallel time?

Red Elk: Right. Now, understand the parallel time idea: say you blink here, and hit a little boy on a bicycle and kill him. On another time stream, you don’t blink; on one of these many - there are trillions of these parallel times for every moment of your life - so on. A parallel time, you didn’t blink, and the little boy is not hit, and he grows up to be President of the United States or whatever. Do you understand what I mean?

Gail Cortright: Yes.

Red Elk: Now, the Creator’s mind is enormous - so vast, so unbelievably way beyond, way above the comprehension of mankind, that He can keep track of every parallel time.

Every single human being, on any planet, whether they look like us or not, has a path. And it is what they do on that path, that there is something opposite, or in-between, of the same human being, on another parallel time.

So, think of all the breaths you’ve taken. Think of all the events in your life - well, you can’t - just an event like getting in the car and driving down the road and turning left. In another reality you go straight. In another one, you don’t go anywhere. In another, you turn right. In another, your car breaks down.

You understand?

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: But the Creator has them ALL. He knows every one. I don’t know how many people are on our planet, on our particular planet, but there’s got to be over two, and nevertheless, He has it all worked out, other paths, of other people, who are called you, in other situations, parallel time situations. So it’s all kind-of interesting.

Oh, I love the Guy. He’s a Cool Head. I really love the Creator. He’s Pop, the Old Man, Topside, He’s Dad to me. He’s more than just holding at arm’s length. He’s a Guy that I get to crawl-up on His lap, and give Him a big hug.

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: A personal relationship. That’s what He wants from everybody, but everybody holds Him up there, some in fear; it’s too bad because they’re missing out. This is a Guy who, in His mind/womb, is both our Mother and our Father.

And then, enter: the wonder of you, bringing YOU into life, through your mom and dad, who He wanted, through their moms and dads, who He wanted, just so He could get you.

You know?

And not just so He could get you. He wants everybody. He loves everybody. But what do we do? We stand back in fear, or awe - or in many, many cases, we give Him “white bread” by saying that we don’t believe in Him, which is a bunch of bunk.

Everyone was born knowing that there is ONE God.

Anyway, the world - I’m not speaking “Christian”, I’m speaking “the world” - would be so much better off if they started personally communicating with Him; and not only prayer, but just chat, like “Hi Dad, how’s your day?”

“Well, goin’ pretty good kid. I gotta go get some new teeth, though; got one knocked-out by another kid.”

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: But He’s that kind of a relationship, and the world can have that.

Gail Cortright: Right, absolutely.

Red Elk: And that brings us to another point. The point being, we are not alone! Not only are there many trillions of parallel times on this particular planet, but there are many, many planets in times, dimensions, and planes.

A lot of those people - you wouldn’t even think that some were a living human of any sort, but no, they are our brothers and sisters. They are made in that shape to fit the environment of the planet they’re from, their Earth. And He has parallel times there, too.

This is a Mind that is just incomprehensible. And don’t play chess with Him. That would be so stupid. (Laughter)

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Gail Cortright: Well, you know, a lot of people ask - since you’re talking about Creator, I’ll just ask you this real fast, so you can get back onto your story. But a lot of people will call here and ask: “What can I do to prepare?”

And, normally they’re meaning “How much water should I buy?” or “How much food should I store?” or something along those lines. What I tell them, in my opinion, is that the best thing anybody can do to prepare is to work on and have an unbreakable connection with Creator.

Red Elk: A relation, yes. And you’re telling them, actually, the only truth that matters. People have come to me, over the years, and asked the same question. And they’re talking “survival”. And that’s great. But how do they know how long they’re going to survive? You could put the phone down and drop dead.

Gail Cortright: And you can have all the survival stuff that you want, and if you don’t have that Connection to get your own Guidance, it may not do you any good.

Red Elk: Like on Mr. Bell’s show, I said everyone has their own path, everyone will be warned in their own way. And the fact is, not only is that a true statement, but instead of running around in fear, get your spiritual growth to the Creator act together.

Gail Cortright: That’s right.

Red Elk: And I have people who have sunk almost $300,000 - a husband and wife - they’ve literally gone flat-out broke building a special house to survive.

Gail Cortright: An underground shelter?

Red Elk: In this case it’s burmed, but nevertheless, close to it, heavily burmed above, as well as three sides. But, you know, I say: “This is all good. This is fine. This is wonderful. I hope you aren’t downtown buying a cup of coffee!”

Gail/Rick: (Laughter) Right, exactly.

Red Elk: But if they were, and it did, that house was not meant for them. They spent all their money. There are no accidents. It was meant for a survivor. So, there’s no accidents.

They give me a great kick, you know. They bought this HUGE generator. I say “Wow, why have you got the generator?” They say “Man, when the electricity goes out” and blah, blah, blah.

And I said:

“When the electricity goes out, and blah, blah, blah, so goes the gasoline, and the roads, and the way to get the gasoline.”

Gail Cortright: That’s exactly right.

Red Elk: I can’t believe these people!

I have seen what the most probable future is. I don’t go into the future; I’m taken into the future. I do teach people how to go forward, and advise them only to go into the next 24 hours, because that is the zone that the probabilities are so closely related to today, it will probably be the one that is actually going to happen.

I tell them, two days, the probabilities are spread out a little more, and three, even greater. So, anything beyond three you cannot count on; there are so many probabilities - you can blink here, and hit the boy - anything during those 3 days.

The next 24 hours is another story; it’s so close. And, by doing this, I teach them how to fast-video their next waking moments, from the time they wake-up to the time they go to bed.

Well, you can’t learn to do this and sit-up, let’s say 12 hours, learning what the next 12 hours of wakefulness will be - you’ll be asleep during that time!

So, I teach them how to fast-forward, and ask the Creator to stop, or slow down, when a problem is coming up - a quarrel, an accident, or whatever. And if you can’t catch it, then ask them to back it up and run through it very slowly.

You can, literally, change the greatest probability for tomorrow simply by doing so. Turn left, instead of going into the area where you would have had an accident. Tell each other about the greatest probability of a quarrel coming up, and you can stop the quarrel because you realize, oh-oh, here are the signs. You understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: And, in truth, if you do this on a daily basis, and pay attention, you can have a really great and wonderful life. You wouldn’t spend money needlessly; you would stay home if you needed to; you would take your children out of school that day, or what not, because you’re looking at the greatest probability. You change the future. You change the path, simply by being aware of what that particular future path of 24 hours is.

But many people have asked me, would you please foresight my life? I say: “Not a problem. You’re going to live until you die, and the rest of it is all Christmas presents.”

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: I tell them, flat-out:

“No, I won’t go any further than that.”

And it’s true. Life is meant to be full of surprises, good or bad. And let them experience it. Why should I take the greatest probability of their life and share it with them? It is only the greatest, it is not the ONLY probability. And if they turn left, instead of right, they change that greatest, automatically. And, frankly, what their future holds, I’m not that brainy that I can look at ALL THE PROBABILITIES over the years; only the Creator can do that.

But the next 24 hours, He says:

“Oh, the medicine man, I’ll let you look there, safely. And you can teach it, safely.”


Rick Martin: The thing that I’m most curious to know about, so I might as well ask that first, and then we can back-up and go from there. In your booklet you say, a few months ago you were contacted by members of the Federation of Planets. And they informed you that we - I presume, here on Earth -

Red Elk: Right.

Rick Martin: - caused a split within the Federation.

Red Elk: That’s what THEY think.

Rick Martin: Can you explain that?

Red Elk: Oh, understand that other human beings from other planets have DNA’d us, over the years. Not necessarily personally, one planet coming and doing it. But because it started, originally, with the very first planet, which was not this Earth, and the very first people of that planet, again, which was not of this Earth. This is a, relatively speaking, fairly new planet.

When planet # 2 came up, when the Creator kicked that one out - like an egg, you know, in a mountain chicken - then it kind-of evolved. Well, by the time they got evolved, pretty fair, # 1 planet was so evolved, and so commonly gone “technical”, instead of “Godnical”, they decided to go have fun with Mickey.

So, they went down and said:

“Hey, these seem like pretty primitive people. Let’s go over and use them to do our work, clean our toilets and serve us.”

And they started DNA-ing their blood into them, and making them half-breeds, and then using the result to better their life in an ungodly way.

Rick Martin: Are we talking about Earth yet?

Red Elk: Not yet, we aren’t even born yet. Earth is still sitting way back there in God’s Creation Mind.

Now, this goes on and on and on. Mickey grows up and does it to number 3 planet. Number 1 does it to number 3 planet. And then, you know, it just carries on and on and on.

Eventually, everybody’s got everybody’s blood, bloodline, weak here, weak there, strong here, strong there. But, nevertheless, every human being - and I’m not speaking Earth alone, I’m speaking everyone with soul, and there are more than I can count, but then again, I have trouble counting past two - every single one of them are intermixed with the rest.

In Indian language, we call this mitakuye oyasin (we are one relation). And we are not referring, in that sense, to all beings throughout all Creations, beginning to now. We are also referring to the worm, the tree, the weather, everything else, without which we would have a hard time making it.

But then again, when people hear mitakuye oyasin, in their minds, they think:

“Yeah, we’re all people of this planet.”

Some of them have got brains enough to realize we’re all people of this planet, plus everything that makes up this planet. But few realize that we are all of EVERYTHING made-up, everything - that includes other planets’ people, other planets’ trees, gases, whatnot, everything.

Because other planets - if they’re made up of, say, pure acid, or pure gases - Scripture says: “God is in all things.” It is He who gives us everything that makes us, whoever we are, from whatever planet we are, survive. And all things have life, have awareness, a God-awareness.

So, we are connected to absolutely everything ever made, and is made to this time, everything.

Unless I got off the track, did that answer your question? I don’t remember the question.

Rick Martin: The question concerned the split among the Federation.

Red Elk: Aho. Ok, that does not answer your question.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: But it does lead to it. Therefore, all the Federation peoples, the so-called wise men and elders of various planets, belong to the Federation; not all planets, this is just a Federation. There are others that won’t have anything to do with it, they got their own thing goin’. But, nevertheless, these people all see that you and I, here on the planet called Earth, have everything in us, everything, including themselves, no matter what themselves happen to be - Draconian, Pleiadian, or whatever. So, they all lay claim to us.

Now, we have the “Unholy Four”, who claim us to the point that they’re more than willing, and have, and are, and am, at war, fighting everybody because they want us.

[In his booklet called The Agendas, Red Elk describes the Unholy Four as being: the Reptilians, the Bee People (Greys), the Gargoyle race, and Sasquatch.]

It’s like the Conquistadors who came to America and planted a flagpole to say it belongs to Spain; it’s that type of deal - very arrogant, very heady twits.

So it boils down to them playing with DNA and so on; it all boils down to you and me. And everybody wants a piece of the action. It’s either, leave us alone - and nobody wants to, especially the Unholy Four - or, somebody gets to win and control us, and the vast majority do not want that. So, the best thing to do is to kill us, wipe us off, no more problem.

So that’s where we stand. Win or lose, that’s where we stand.

THEY have created the problem, but believe it’s we who are the problem. If they hadn’t screwed around in the first place, we would have evolved naturally, and be only our own problem. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: And nobody’s great threat.

Gail Cortright: Do you think that’s part of the reason it has taken us so long to evolve?

Red Elk: Honey, we have not taken so long to evolve. If you want to see those who are on the evolution path, go talk to Sasquatch, THEY are our original people.

Gail Cortright: I remember you saying that on the Art Bell show.

Red Elk: Adam and Eve were the first “evolved” through DNA, of them, Sasquatch.

Gail Cortright: So, we’ve evolved from Bigfoot?

Red Elk: No, no, no. We WERE Bigfoot; they modernized us - different brains, different bodies, and everything else.

Gail Cortright: Oh, I see.

Rick Martin: These other off-planet beings.

Red Elk: Somebody piddling around with good little ole’ people of Earth, now blaming us for their problems. And I’ve gone to the Federation. I’ve stood there before the Federation. And - and you can put this in - I chewed their butt royally for their screw-ups.

And, afterwards, when I came back from this meeting, I got a phone call from one of the others of our planet who belongs to the Federation. This gentleman said:

“Red Elk, I know you couldn’t see me for all the vast number of people, but I and others of this planet were there and heard you. And I/we wanted to thank you. We have always known that what you said was needed, but we feared, and you have no fear.”

So, what was said, was said. I’m not too well liked up there. I’ve only been up there three, maybe five times, tops. I get on their butt like I get on anybody else’s who’s screwing-up. Even worse, I get on my own.

I feel real bad when I screw-up.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Rick Martin: Somebody has to speak frankly to these beings, especially if they are, quote, “looking out for our own best interest”.

Red Elk: They aren’t. They’re looking out for THEIR best interest!

Gail Cortright: Right, right.

Rick Martin: Interesting.

Red Elk: And you can emphasize their! We have, basically, three types of other beings, three types of thought. Those who are FOR us, which is just about zero, if not so. Those who are AGAINST us, which is close, if not very, very close to 100%. And those who IGNORE us. Hot, cold, lukewarm. Scripture says: “I would rather you be hot or cold, than lukewarm.” Lukewarm makes a very uncomfortable bath. If it’s hot, you can take a bath, you can cool it to your liking. Cold, at least you can drink it. But to drink or bathe in lukewarm water is really difficult. So, in their own ways, they are all against us, and only for themselves.

Gail Cortright: Wow.

Rick Martin: You talk in your booklet about Lucifer being behind everything, and the opposition to Lucifer is, of course, part of God’s Greater Plan anyway, in an effort for everyone to be aware of how magnificent He is as a being.

Red Elk: Absolutely. We - this particular planet - is a mousetrap floating in space, and you and I are the cheese. We are the ones who will draw all to us. And they are close, I mean close.

Fighting, right now, the war is suckering in every created being who’s alive today, including different dimensions - not parallel times, but including dimensions, and times, and planes. Many who want nothing to do with the war have no choice but to go to war.

These are not spiritual beings I’m speaking of; these are physical beings. It’s all over us. We smell pretty good to the mice out there. And that’s exactly why the Creator has allowed everything to go on as it is. IT’S HIS PLAN.

And none of them, absolutely none, except for the few who I get in contact with - full-blood Lizards, half-breeds, that type of thing - none of these people give one thought to anything but themselves. They, in their own way, right, and mind, believe that. They don’t give any thought to ever being created, to their “original” Adam and Eve, their original Sasquatch of their planet. They just plain don’t have Him (which has no sex) in their mind at all. It’s their culture. It’s accepted. We are who we are.

And the vast majority feel that they are the BIG G, God. And in so doing, they can do anything they want. If they want to do bad, they’re God, they can do it. If they want to do good, they can do it. But the fact is, very few, I’m talking just 3, 4, or maybe 10 people on this planet are aware that they are not God, therefore are not Lucifer, and therefore have no right to do to others, just no right. And, well, the rest feel otherwise.

And my job is to make the others, all others, not just people of our planet, but all others, aware that there is something far bigger than them, and that they, in turn, are being hoodwinked, stealthfully used by someone they don’t believe exists either. They think they are God, they are Lucifer - in fact, they are not either.

And the true Lucifer is using them, and making them feel like they are God.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: So the fact is, it’s not them against us, it’s Lucifer against the Creator. Do you understand? But we happen to be the physical ones who are getting zapped.

Rick Martin: Caught in the middle.

Red Elk: Yeah. But what a wonderful middle it is for this planet. All the people who will die - look at the end result of the millions who, beyond our planet, who will finally see the truth. There is ONE CREATOR! Bring them back to their original roots that they had, eons ago, but now forgotten. And it is our sacrifice for the Creator, to be the cheese in the mousetrap, willing or unwilling. And what is death? It’s a continuation of life, period.

So, it’s going to be kind-of a hurtful way to die for many people, but it is anyway. Some people get tortured to death, some people get run over by a truck or a car and spend days dying, but we all die. We don’t have to, but we all die. Death is nothing. Getting there can be a pain. Death is a piece of cake. I’ve been there, done that. I’ve got 3 more trips to go. No problem.

As far as I’m concerned, Heaven - ho, wow, what a place that is! I never go there, I’m always taken there. Heaven, to me, is a great place to visit, but I’ve got a job to do and I don’t want to stay.

Gail Cortright: So that’s not just a state of mind?

Red Elk: Oh, no, no, no. You ought to see the walls in Heaven, unbelievable. They are huge, glasslike - I could not even venture how thick between one glass pane and the other one behind it. I have no idea. But it’s not an inch; I’m talking feet or yards. And its pastel marble, and it’s like somebody blowing smoke between glass panes, and all this color, these beautiful pastel blues and pinks and golds; oh, it’s just beautiful. And that’s what the walls are like. And you touch them and they’re warm. They’re not hot, they’re not cold; its just fantastic. A nice place to visit - and for anybody who worries about it, shoot, don’t worry.

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: The AIR, the air, I think, is the most unbelievable part of all of the Heavens. The air is GOD HIMSELF - the awareness, the love, the majesty. You breathe God!

Maybe you two are old enough to remember, Grandma would wash windows with newspapers and vinegar. When she got done, they squeaked, and it was a prism of sunshine coming through, thousands of clean glass particles. That’s what the air is like, and you breathe it. It’s a “heavy” place to go to, really cool.

Gail Cortright: I bet.

Rick Martin: Wouldn’t mind a vacation there.

Red Elk: Wouldn’t mind a vacation?

Rick Martin: Wouldn’t mind a vacation there.

Red Elk: Some people get that vacation, then come back and they are not afraid of dying. I never was, in the first place. But I’ve spent my time up there, and came back. And I know that I will do 3 more times. But the fourth time, I’m not coming back. I’m done here.

But, people have asked me: “If you’ve really been there, why did you come back?” Like they don’t believe me. I’ve got a job to do!

Rick Martin: Yeah, your job is not done.

Red Elk: Nope. And I’m very pleased with my job. I’m not going to be too happy with what’s going to happen during it, to me personally, but me be darned. I am no one. I am here for others. I just happened to be a by-product. It’s something that Inner Heyokas know. No, this is not a matter of blowing myself up, at all. I’m just making a statement.

Rick Martin: Over the last number of years there are a fair number of so-called New Age authors and channels who have either made the statement that Lucifer is no longer on the planet, or he’s been bound, or he’s not really an active force anymore. And I think it’s really a disservice to man for people to be making those kinds of statements when he is very much a real force, and he is very much in the game.

Red Elk: Well, again, what is going on with people who say that? It is Lucifer trying to convince any who will listen that that is a fact; therefore they’re open to be “gods” within their own minds, and do whatever they want. It’s all deception.

Gail/Rick: That’s right.

Red Elk: Lucifer is a wonderful being. I’ve seen him, personally. I’ve faced him, personally. And he’s not red, with a long tail and horns! But nevertheless - he is a Master of deception, a Master of lying!

Rick Martin: He’s the best.

Red Elk: Oh, there is nothing better. If you say Lucifer is all bad, you’re wrong. He’s a good example of what’s all bad! The Creator, what a kick, I love the way the Creator works. Lucifer can’t get anywhere except by conning you.

People say: “Oh, the devil made me do it.” Or “The devil’s on my back.”

No, not if they see it right. There is no bad, it is only how you comprehend it and look at it. I’m not saying that my grandchild being tortured and raped is not a bad event. But I look at it even different beyond that: It is simply a test to watch if you can grow past the rock, pebble, or mountain put in your spiritual path to grow.

There is no bad. It is only how you look at bad. The Creator allows these things to happen, hoping that you will realize that it is a rock, a pebble, or mountain in your path, and that you will overcome it, and get stronger in love, His Love, true love, purity love, and just keep going up that path.

He wants you to learn to go around, over, or under that large boulder that’s been placed there by Lucifer. In short, He’s using Lucifer, and Lucifer’s conning you, thinking that it’s Him doing it, as Lucifer; and it is, but you’re supposed to be conned into thinking that you cannot surmount that stone, which you CAN! He’s conned you into thinking that you can’t.

And I’ll guarantee you: a man who lays down gets up a lot slower than a man who falls down. And we all fall, we all fail. But the guy who falls down, gets up quick, and he starts attacking that stone. In time, in time, as you grow, that rock will only make you falter, as you walk through it. You no longer have to go around it, above it, or under it. You grow so spiritually strong, it just holds you there for a few moments. And you just say: “Ah, come on, this is just an illusion; this is meant to slow me down from growing spiritually, to Dad, and in Dad.” And I’m just going to have to bypass it. I’m going to bypass it this time by walking through it! And when you get to that stage in your life, in your spiritual growth, boy, I tell you, it’s fun. And you get bigger and bigger rocks thrown there.

Rick Martin: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Yeah, but it makes you grow stronger and stronger and stronger. And then the world looks at you and says: “How could you laugh at that terrible thing that happened to you?”

“Ah, shoot, piece of cake.” You understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: There is no bad, brother, none whatsoever. It’s only how you look at it. I’m not saying things are not horrible and won’t happen, or don’t happen; they do. But it is meant for you to grow, spiritually.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Rick Martin: Let’s talk about the levels under our feet.

Red Elk: Mr. Bell did not give me the opportunity to explain it all, and I can’t blame him, entirely. I misunderstood one of his questions, but nevertheless, there’s no accidents, including getting off the track many times on Mr. Bell’s show; there’s no accidents. I gave a lot of things out, unfinished.

So many came back to me in written notes: “What’s this? Finish it up.”

So, I’m still writing letters. (Laughter) Gosh, am I writing letters, answering letters.

But, nevertheless, people have gotten the impression there is a ball, free floating inside a ball, free floating inside a ball, free floating inside a ball, and on and on. This is not the case.

The whole Earth, from its lava center, to our literal top here, number 6, is solid, except for HUGE, HUGE CAVERNS, caverns that are two, three hundred miles wide, and many, many times that long. Just like we have caves, big ones, up here [in Washington state], there are caves in the next level down, number 5. That is the 5th inner-land.

And mankind, here on this surface, if they hit the right spot, and could go deep enough, they would hit a big air pocket and drop 2-3 miles before they would start hitting more rock, because they’ve penetrated a cave. These caves are filled, and deliberately made to look like what we experience here on the surface of our planet.

And the deeper you go, number 5, there are lots and lots of these caves. But its not so many that you punch a hole here, there, and everywhere and you’re hitting nothing but caves.

By the way, their is the illusion of “mountains” between number 5’s floor and ceiling. Because of the heat inside, and because of the air outside, here, that gets down in there, cold and hot, it creates great clouds. So the people - the few who are there at the moment, and the many who will return - they see these as clouds. And the sides of these giant caves, they believe are mountains, the tops of which are hidden by clouds. In truth, it’s not; it’s just the top of the cave; but you can’t see that because there are clouds; it’s steamy in there. Do you understand?

Gail/Rick: Yes.

Red Elk: The farther down you go, the less and less caves, and the smaller and smaller. And then you get, literally, right down to Lucifer’s realm, where there are very, very few natural caves. Everything there he’s connected cave-to-cave, his own tunnels, and made his own caves. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: Ok. Anything below him is too hot for him, the lava at level number 1, our planet’s center.

Rick Martin: Now, what are these caves that are under South America, under China, that are like fused glass, smooth caves that go for hundreds, perhaps thousands of miles?

Red Elk: There is no “perhaps”. I am a caretaker of the tunnels.

Rick Martin: Who made those?

Red Elk: Some are very natural. Some, very few, but some were made by Lucifer as he dug in through our surface to find the heat-range he liked.

And then again, some of them are on the number 5, and number 4 planetary levels [beneath the Earth’s surface, the surface being number 6 ]. Now, understand, when I speak of number 5 and number 4, and on down, I’m speaking of solid earth with caves. All right?

They were made by the so-called gods, who originally came down to DNA us. That was two alliances. One, we call the Slopeheads, they were giants, 20-26 feet tall giants, who were in alliance with the ones who we call the Lizard people. They made an alliance to come to this planet to mine gold, and other minerals.

The Lizards, liking it hot, because they are from a series of three planets that are nothing but sand - three dwarf suns that are so hot it would blind them within a minute. They dug down. They, literally, live underground, in beautiful (to them) cities and towns, connected by tunnels and stuff, but underground on those planets.

They were not comfortable up here on the # 6 level of Earth’s surface - too cold, too windy. It was just not their comfort zone.

So they said: “Look, we’ll take part of those [ primitive ] humans of this planet, and we’ll go underground and we’ll just mine x number of miles below. You’re used to this up here, you take x amount [of primitive humans for slave labor], and you do it up here.” And that’s how the alliance was made.

The alliance also said that there would be a people untouched by either, to evolve naturally. That has happened, and that’s our Sasquatch, Yeti, Bigfoot, and so forth.

Nevertheless, the Lizards were, and are, extremely cruel taskmasters. For whatever reason, I have never seen a female Lizard from below, in my taking past trips or present.

Rick Martin: Yes, I read that in your booklet, pretty interesting.

Red Elk: So what has happened is, they took their quota of human beings, took them digging tunnels and stuff, going down, took them in to be miners.

And, in so doing, they’re quite the sex fiends, these beings, very sex-minded. They raped men and women alike. Now, these are male Lizards raping whoever they wanted.

And, these Lizards hardly ever got their slave people any more then absolutely needed, for drink, let alone food. They were really bad slave masters, and killing these people off, prematurely, just through their own cruelty. And, therefore, running out of their quota.

So, they started going up, sneaking up here, and grabbing more people to take down there.

Meanwhile, our “gods” up here (not the true God, understand), they were much more pleasant, much kinder. They used shots and stuff for their DNA, to make our Sasquatch more handleable, and more to their need and liking, to do the mining up here. So, they weren’t rapists, and stuff.

They were pretty good people, really, to be honest with you, despite the agenda. By the way, those people are the ones who, the Slopeheads, are literally sculpted and are the heads that are on Easter Island.

Nevertheless, there were a number of raids, and it was inexcusable. The Lizards had broken the alliance many times, and were raiding the “no one touches these” group, as well as taking some of our so-called gods, down.

So, our gods decided: “This is enough. Let’s face it. These Lizard people have done nothing but lie. And they’ve broken the alliance many, many times over. So, let’s just declare war, and say enough’s enough. Let’s go down and save those human beings that they’ve got down there, and pull them out, and try and destroy the Lizards, and get them out of there, and get them off the inner-land.”

Well, in so doing they realized that this surface, the Sun, was way too bright. There were winds, and stuff like that. These people have been down there, and bred, and so on and so forth, for many, many, many, many years. They were not used to sunlight. They were not used to cold. They were just slaves, digging, and being raped, and eaten alive - anything that these Lizard s.o.b.s wanted to do, they did.

So, our boys, our gods, went down to the next level, making more tunnels on the way down, and connected, tunneled between giant caverns. And in those caverns they created what we have on this planet, but with a much dimmer Sun.

Actually, I did a misdeed, by accident. I’ve never seen a Moon under there. The Sun is the Moon. At night, it gets darker; in day, it gets lighter. It’s a fascinating machine, this hovering Sun. And it’s not just in one cavern, it’s in all these huge caverns, they’ve got this.

Rick Martin: Now, I don’t want to get you off-track. I want to stay on this track. But I want to remember to ask you about the being that [Zulu Shaman and Elder] Credo Mutwa referred to as Jabulon, the leader of the Chitauli, or the Reptilians. Is THAT Lucifer, is that one and the same?

Red Elk: No, no, no.

Rick Martin: Totally different?

Red Elk: Well, yeah. He thinks he’s Top Dog, because he is just like them, all thinking they are god, they are Lucifer. He just thinks he is the Top Dog amongst them. But he himself is being used by Lucifer, who is FULL OF STEALTH.

But anyway, this Sun, again, in reality, is quite small, being that it’s only two or three miles up. It pulls energy. I looked at it just within the last, oh, three, four weeks, trying to figure out what kind of power it has. It’s not nuclear power, and yet it’s forever lasting. The gravity situation, to make it levitate, I have no idea. But, I have found out that it pulls power in from our actual Sun, through the Earth’s skin and pores.

Rick Martin: Boy, that’s interesting.

Red Elk: Yeah, it is really fascinating.

I am connecting this discussion with certain Earth-healing vortices, and with a number of pyramids here in the United States, and the time cave.

There are certain places you don’t dare walk onto, walk directly onto the top, or be in, with a credit card, or anything. Literally, the power is so great, that energy going in, and back, and mixing, to power the Sun that is within that general area of the time cave, or pyramid, or whatever, it just wipes out your magnetic strip. It does the same thing with cell phones. New batteries, I mean NEW, within an hour of putting it in, you turn the battery on, within under 10 minutes, your battery is drained. It burns film, when you go to take pictures. Your film comes out just with this orange/red coloration, like it’s been exposed to great heat. You just can’t get good pictures from these spots. You can get good pictures OF these spots, but not from these spots. But that’s because the gods, with whatever type of magic - I call it magic, not meaning that, but - technology they use, have learned to harness our own Sun’s solar power to power these false suns.

Once all of this environment was made, the plains were planted, and the grasses growing, they built beautiful cities, oh, just beautiful! The main building of each city is a cross between the Aztec pyramid and the Giza pyramid. Just beautiful, all stone. The ones that I’ve been to, if it’s granite, it’s a white granite. Sandstone is involved, and another kind. There is a black city, too, all black, like a black obsidian, just absolutely gorgeous. It doesn’t mean that it’s a bad city; that’s the rock that was there that they could work with. And there’s another city, down under Mexico - actually, if I can remember correctly, under Mexico City - and it’s just beautiful! And it’s much more Aztecian - a gold, gold-covered, beautiful thing. And these are all over on this # 5 level of the Inner Earth, just beneath us.

Anyway, once they got everything growing, you know, they had plants growing, they planted fish in the water, and so on, and so forth.

Rick Martin: Who are we talking about?

Red Elk: Our gods, up here, preparing to save those who have been taken below. How they got away with it, without the Lizards knowing, beats me, but they did.

They got all this going, all this built. Once that was done, they started drilling down to the next lower level, # 4, and making tunnels. And in so doing, they also set-up many traps between our surface and the ceiling, and the cavern sides, that hold up the caves. They made many, many tunnels, many side tunnels, all traps, all traps. And the only ones who knew where these traps were, were the builders themselves, our so-called gods.

Well, they went down and attacked the Lizards, and did like I told Mr. Art. They did an excellent number on them. Many, on both sides, were killed, including human slaves; many were killed. A huge war went on down there. And the Lizards were beat. And they ran off and licked their wounds.

We got what we could - I say we, meaning our gods - we got what we could and brought them up to the surface of # 5 level [ first level below Earth’s surface], to let them stay 10 generations; however long those “generations” were, I do not know. It was far longer than what you and I call a generation now.

This was so they could get used to that sun, and what little breeze they created, through many tunnels that they built, and so on, so that they could safely come up to the surface, the #6 level, and face an even stronger Sun, and stronger breeze, and so on.

Well, the Lizards, over time, licked their wounds and regrouped, and attacked. And our people, our gods, were hoping they could make it through 10 generations.

Well, they didn’t. They made it through about 8½, I think, before the Lizards counter-attacked, driving our human people, as well as our gods, up to this #6 surface. Your Navajo, Arapaho, so on, they are really the miners from down there - short stocky bodies, strong legs, strong arms. They have yet to evolve into a more typical # 6 surface dweller [the Earth’s surface upon which we live]; but they’re doing good though.

Rick Martin: So when they talk about coming up through the Sipapu, and coming up from the Earth -

Red Elk: They know what they’re talking about! Listen to them.

And they [the Native Americans] are not the only ones. Others have come up, in Africa, and all different continents. Some of our Africans claim they came from above, now, and that’s true. Some claim they came from below, up, and that’s true. Some of them don’t know where they came from, and that’s true, because they were created and always stayed here on # 6 level.

Meanwhile, the Lizards themselves made many tunnels, not only through the drilling process, but preparing to counter-attack.

Rick Martin: Now, were the Lizards independents? Or, were they just associates of Lucifer?

Red Elk: They didn’t know Lucifer existed. Do you understand that? Get that in your head.

Rick Martin: Totally independent.

Red Elk: Totally believing they are god. They can do anything they want, godly or ungodly. They don’t even have a name for God, or a name for Lucifer. They have their own name. They are ALL - so they think - just a big con job. But nevertheless, they, in preparing to attack the # 5 level, also made tunnels, with many traps.

So the great chase was on. They came up and attacked “our” guys on # 5, who were watching the kids grow (the rescued ones, for the 10 generations), and they did a number on our guys.

So, our guys escaped with a number of the human beings who they had rescued; many, many others never made it. They were all killed. And they emerged, through certain areas across our continents, and that’s where the stories “we came from Inner Earth” came from. They did!

What happened to our gods, our Slopeheads? It really is something I don’t know.

I know that the Lizards have remained. But the gods, basically, have left. And by the way, I think I’ve got a rather good idea what they did. They went to the dimension that was not in our dimension, where this Earth is. They were from another dimension, and they went home.

Rick Martin: Let’s continue to talk about the layers. I know you got so side-tracked on Art Bell. If you have more to say about the layers under our feet, let’s do that now.

Red Elk: I don’t think there is much more to say about it. They are not “balls within balls”. They are all connected.

The lower you go, the less and less caves, until they are almost totally non-existent. And that’s where Lucifer has taken over and made what I like to call their “glass wall” - caves and tunnels and stuff - quite a machinery that they work with. This is kind-of odd to say that because the Christian world thinking we’re dealing with all spirit. Well, yes and no. They’ve learned to appear in spirit. I do that. But, nevertheless, they are very technical, physical-technical, and they have forever life.

Rick Martin: How would you describe Lucifer, if you were to do that?

Red Elk: Looks?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: Oh - beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Rick Martin: Human?

Red Elk: No, angel; human-looking, but an angel. Not demonic, and to be honest with you - no hair on his body, none; no sexual organs, none; there’s nothing there. He’s got the perfect body, the PERFECT body - tonal muscles, stomach, just perfect; the guy is perfect. Yet so “black” [spiritually dark] that in the black where I was facing him, I literally hit my nose with my hand, trying to see if I could see my hand. And yet, when he appeared in that blackness, it was like there was a dim light on; no problem to see. And so unbelievably beautiful you couldn’t believe it. But, he’s like someone who is so charismatic, so well liked, who comes to a party, the kind of man or woman who, when he/she opens the door and enters, everybody’s head turns. You understand?

Rick Martin: Yes, I do.

Red Elk: And that one person, man or woman, looks over the party of these people and sees somebody who they can’t stand, and their face instantly turns to this HATE. There is hate on the face of Lucifer. Absolutely beautiful, but the most ugly thing that you can imagine.

Rick Martin: A large being?

Red Elk: Oh yeah, about 22 feet. No tail, no horns, no eyebrows, no pointy ears. Beautiful being. Absolutely - it’s hard for me to say this, being male - gorgeous.

Rick Martin: This will seem like a sidetrack, but I have a note here to myself to ask you about Planet X or Nibiru. Who are those beings, the Anunnaki?

Red Elk: You know, I don’t know who the Anunnaki are. I have a very strong feeling - although I cannot say I know - but I have a very strong feeling they are a race of beings, slaves, who were brought here by another race, not of the two of the Alliance, from another planet. And were themselves used, on this planet, in a slave form. But they, very definitely, are not of this planet. Where they went, I know not, other than taken-off and taken to wherever, to another planet. Kind-of traveling slaves.

Now, Planet X, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Are you referring to the one that makes the great oval, that comes by every 2300 or 3200 years, or something.

Rick Martin: Yes, every 3600 years.

Red Elk: Oh, yes, and it’s here, it’s here. It’s within their ships’ range, and has been now for, at the very least, three years, five, I think. These are the Gargoyle race. This is where our Gargoyle legends come from, our devils. That’s these beings.

They don’t have the technology - they don’t have the need, really - to go through worm holes, or whatnot, to get to one place or another. They are on their own spaceship, a planet, that makes a great oval course. And they harvest the planets as they go by. WE are the harvest, the human beings. And they pluck us like you and I would go out and pluck apples off a tree. But they always leave enough people to re-seed the Earth.

Rick Martin: Well, talking about the harvest, let’s talk about the False Rapture vs. the Real Rapture.

Red Elk: Ok. Now, this is going to be really hard for the so-called Christian world to comprehend, unless they’ve got some dang brains.

Rick Martin: That’s fine. Just speak truthfully, that’s all we care about.

Red Elk: That’s right. I want them to check it out for themselves. Scripture says - this is God saying - “I am the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.” And that’s His Word. He does not lie.

So, He IS the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. He will not change. And people have often said, look at the Jews in the Old Testament, that they are examples, if you follow God, what will happen; if you get out of His step, what will happen. See, the city did that, and they got attacked by that city, and blah, blah, blah, and they leave it go there.

But the Old Testament not only was using that as an example for people 3, 4, 5 hundred years later to look back on, it was there for today to look back on. Take Nineveh for example. God told Jonas: “You go there and tell them I’m going to destroy them in three days.”

And Jonas didn’t want to. They were the Lizards of the day. They were pretty bad guys. Not real Lizards, but pretty bad people. And he didn’t want to. He defied God and ended up in a serpent’s belly, whether it was a giant guppy, a whale, or whatnot, never mind. Why people say a whale, when the Bible doesn’t say that at all, I don’t know. It’s an example of starting false rumors.

But, anyway, he ended up there, spit out on the shore in front of the city of Nineveh, and decided, you know: “I’ve been living a rough life trying to run from God; I better do what He told me.”

So, he went into the city, and danged if they did not repent! Turn away from sin - that’s the word repent. That’s what it means. And that really ticked-off Jonas, and he went up on the hillside and pouted. He wanted them to get theirs.

Now, God did not destroy them in 3 days. He said He was going to. And yet, because they turned their hearts back to their Creator, He would not destroy them. They got destroyed, just like He said, but it was left to their children, who walked away. Nineveh was an example, for the people, if you do what God tells you, everything will be cake and honey; if not, you’ve got trouble.

So, people have looked at that and used that as an example. But, not thinking at all that it is we who are NOW Nineveh, the planet Earth! And if we turn away from sin, if we repent, i.e., if we turn away from sin and go back to God, then we, the planet Earth and all people on it, will forego Armageddon at this time. It will be put off for our children, or our children’s children - whoever decides to slide back in, as a world generation, to go their own way.

Just as Nineveh, the city of the Old Testament, repented and was saved, so too can this world repent and be saved. We, Earth, is Nineveh, now.

“I am the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.”

And in that, He warned the Jews, if you do what I tell you to do, if you do this, this, and this, everything will be cake and honey. But, if you do this, this, and this, then you will be taken into captivity, and those who captured them could do with them as they chose.

That always happened. The Jews never really paid too much attention. In time, they all slop-shoot down the hill. Then, next thing you know, they’ve got armies attacking them.

And then they start crying “Oh God!”

And He says “Too late dude, you know.”

Like you grabbing a little kid who you’ve warned and warned and warned. Finally, it comes to it, and she or he are screaming, as you’re getting ready to put them over your knee.

“I’m sorry, I’m sorry.” Too late.

So what happened? He was always, and will always, and is always a being of His own Word. He does not lie!

What the future holds is, this planet, under the guise of Nineveh, will have to go through all kinds of spankings, because we paid no attention. But, in the Old Testament there were many lands that captives could be taken to - always leaving a remnant of Jews in Jerusalem, by the way, a very small remnant. But, nevertheless, He was true to His Word. And they were taken into captivity.

Today, we have no single country which is not as good, or better, or as bad, or worse, than any other country. We will be taken into captivity, except it will not be of this land. It will be onto other planets, other lands; other beings will be the bad guys. Other beings from other planets will be the bad guys who come to us and take us off. THE FIRST RAPTURE IS FALSE!

All these towers put up across our country, and I imagine other countries, are not just for microwaves - they’re for mind control, mass mind control! As well, there are some super-duper towers that can instill in us such thoughts as: “Oh, Christ is coming, Christ is coming!” - the joy, and everything else. And people will run out of their houses, stop their cars, get outside, climb their rooftops, do everything that the Bible says - emotionally controlled through these damned towers.

And then the cargo ships will take them up, physically. People will see them rising into the heavens - yelling “Hallelujah!” - into captivity, into slavery, sex toys, and alive-eaten food. I’m not talking all of the masses; I’m talking about those who should be the salt of the Earth, the so-called Christian believers. The vast majority of Christian believers will die up there!

Most of those left behind are those who cannot get outside - in the hospitals, and Christians who are in prisons, or down digging mines, whatever; they can’t get up there in time for this Rapture. They will be the remnant left behind, and in so doing, they will have, maybe, even a harder life than the slaves taken up, because we will be hunted, if we are down here. Bounties will be on our heads. They will take a gutted Christian body, and tie it across the hood of a car, running through town with the horn blaring: “Look what I got! I got my ‘deer’!” - paid for by bounty. I’m not saying that going up is going to be easy, but I am saying that staying down here isn’t going to be any easier.

Again: “I am the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. I do not lie.”

What the Christians are doing are changing, or not reading, what the Scriptures actually say. They don’t see two Raptures. They got their dang butts up in the air, making smiley faces: they’re gonna’ get their rears saved. Ah, yes, they sure are!

But, we all have to die, don’t we?

If they would simply read Scriptures, they would find out what Red Elk is saying is totally true. If they want to change the Scriptures, then what they have to say, want to believe in, that’s their path.

But I’m not changing Scriptures. I’m telling you what the Scriptures actually say. Check it for yourself. Don’t be so dang lazy, so dang stupid, that you take your denomination’s ideas - that are false in many cases, or lax in many more cases - and just accept them as true. You’re accepting a MAN’S teaching, a man’s interpretation!

Believe me, the Creator can speak for Himself, and needs no interpretation. All He needs is somebody who’s got guts enough to sit down, disregard what they have absorbed over the years, and read it for themselves. He’ll talk to them, if they’re honest about it.

Rick Martin: I have had the overwhelming feeling that there is something coming up of great magnitude, and that at some point there will be a separation of some kind. In feeling that, or in thinking that, am I perceiving this False Rapture as the initial separation?

Red Elk: You could be, and you might not be, because I don’t know what time frame you are sensing.

Rick Martin: I’m sensing something major happening within the next brief time. Some kind of major event.

Red Elk: Let me tell you this: I doubt that what you’ve just asked is it; I really doubt it.

Number one: there is going to - right now, starting with this magazine and a few things that have gone on - there is going to be a tremendous “tearing away” from the churches, any denomination, including the religions of the world.

There will be some who finally “get it”, and the rest who want to live in tradition. There will be a great shifting, a great ripping-way of purity from taintedness.

Most people love their taintedness. If the beliefs are good enough for their mom and dad, and grandma and grandpa, it’s good enough for them.

But there is a great hunger out there today - and boy, am I a witness to that with these letters! [He’s referring to the avalanche of mail after his session on the Art Bell program.] There’s a great hunger to know what real truth is. And I get this hunger from every kind of people you can imagine - atheists, voodooists, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, wiccans - all different kinds of believers. There are none totally satisfied with what they hope is the truth. They feel there is more truth than what they are learning and receiving - and indeed, that’s true.

You know, the word salvation - the Christians have got it right and wrong. Salvation: they believe that by asking the Pale One, Christ, into their life, they will be saved. This is true, but it’s not the total truth.

Salvation starts the minute - if you’re serious, understand, not just trying to save your rear, but serious - salvation starts the instant Christ comes into you. Salvation, although you will not find it in a concordance [reference book of biblical passages], to my knowledge, you won’t find it in the Bible, I know that, but you will find it true in your own heart.

Salvation starts instantly. And the word in your own heart, if you’re serious about seeking salvation, seeking help, you will find that the word salvation means the ability to be a free thinker.

Christ said: “I’ve come to give life, and give it abundantly.” Most people think abundance means money. And this is a falsehood.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: I am pretty broke. And yet, I have an abundant life. I get to talk WITH horses, with trees, with people, with planetary people from other places. I am rich in spirit. And yet, I am so poor because there’s got to be a lot more than I know. My gosh, I’ve got just over $2 in my pocket, and yes, I’d like to have over $2,000 in my pocket, but nevertheless, that doesn’t stop me from going out and seeing God in all things, and being aware that all things are aware of One Creator. And getting to share my love of Him, with their love of Him, be it a limb, a leaf, a raindrop, whatever.

And boy, you talk about abundant life! You people are stuck running around talking to each other, and there’s a lot more out there with a lot more love than another man or woman, believe me.

Gail Cortright: Yeah, that’s for sure.

Red Elk: It’s very limited.

Rick Martin: Yes. Well, I think that is one of the main problems of the so-called Christian community - limited thinking.

Red Elk: The main problem with the community called human beings of Earth is that! Don’t limit it to Christians, alone.

It is ALL, including ourselves, you, you, and I. The world of “cans” and the world of “cant's”. If you can’t do something - the word can’t, is it negative or positive? Is it a negative word or a positive word?

Rick Martin: It’s a negative word.

Red Elk: It is not. It is a positive. You are positive.

Rick Martin: You are positive that you can’t do it. (Laughter)

Red Elk: You understand? There is no negative. And when you can turn that positive can’t, to a positive can, as we in medicine have learned, you will be able to levitate and go downtown with no gas. You will be able to shut your eyes, envision where you want to go - safely, if you’ve got half a brain; first check where you want to go and make sure it’s safe to go there - and teleport yourself.

This is all in Scriptures. One person teleported; it is in Scriptures. Christ walked on water? NO! He actually flew on the water. This is all in Scriptures. “The things I’ve done, you can do also, even moreso, for I am with you.” Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water, too - until he realized that was a can’t.

Rick Martin: (Laughter)

Red Elk: You understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Yes, I do.

Red Elk: We have such great abilities! We are limited to only three things; human kind, on any planet, are limited to only three things: (1) We cannot be the Creator, i.e. God, but we can be Godly; (2) we cannot be Lucifer - and a misnomer for him is Satan. You say that, and you mean Lucifer; it’s not true.

Rick Martin: Satan is a different being, isn’t he?

Red Elk: Right, he’s the number-two man. But when you say Satan, you’re thinking Lucifer, automatically.

(2) You cannot be Satan, but you can be satanic; (3) you cannot be Christ, but you can be Christ-like.

Anything beyond those three that you cannot be, YOU CAN DO! I teach this. And I demonstrate it, at times.

Just this last week I was talking about invisibility - as I became almost totally invisible to the two I was teaching. They could see right through me, the chair I was sitting in. I didn’t want to go all the way. I gave them enough to let them know that I know what I’m talking about.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: I’ve had people come from, well, one from Florida, two from Texas, one coming from Alaska, and many within driving range. I’ve taught them how to actually go into a tree, and afterwards, go and speak WITH trees, bushes, plants - speak with, not to. And they were amazed. Some came back crying.

All came back just awed, that the stiff wooden tree they call alive is not a piece of wood, but a thinking being, that takes steps slowly, over the centuries; sends up shoots, or sends a part of itself through a seed in a bird’s belly. And as it dies - not the bird, but the tree - a few feet, or inches, or a mile down the road, it grows. They take steps. These are people, tree people, bug people, horse people, four-legged people, feathered people, cloud people, mountain people.

They don’t have a soul like you or me; they don’t need it. They do no wrong. They do have a Heaven.

But this misnomer about animals having souls - bull - they don’t need it. They are doing right. Do they have the decision to do right or wrong? Yes, they do. But they don’t have a soul that tells them “you are doing wrong” or “you are doing right”. In general, a lion eating a man is doing what the lion has been ordered to do - eat, drink, and be merry.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Be a part of the ecology.

Gail Cortright: Does that mean that we have a soul because we have free will?

Red Elk: We are the only ones in all Creation, all planets - any human of any planet are the only ones who are soul bearers. We are given the great two gifts:

(1) the gift of self-will, and

(2) the gift to be as god, but in little g form.

Rick Martin: Co-creator?

Red Elk: No, absolutely not. There is no co-creator. You don’t co-create for the God.

[Editor’s note: It appears here that Red Elk misunderstood the semantics of Rick’s question. Rick’s definition of co-creating - as would be the same definition all of us would agree with - is identical to the #2 gift to humankind that Red Elk just mentioned above. Those of you familiar with the spiritual messages long shared within these pages from Higher Teachers are already well aware of the finer points which differentiate the “little g” from the “big G” activities as we grow and evolve in Awareness and Balance.

Perhaps Red Elk is reacting to the arrogant misunderstandings long circulating around within New Age psychobabble, questions which he may often need to address in his teaching duties.]

Here, let me tell you a story that will explain this.

A scientist went to God and said: “God, we don’t need you anymore.”

And He said: “What do you mean?”

And the scientist says: “Well, with our technology, we’ve learned to clone people, grow parts and stuff. We don’t need you anymore.”

And Creator said: “Can you make man?”

And the scientist thought for a little while, and he said: “Well, we haven’t, but we could make man. I’m pretty sure of it.”

And God says: “Alright, you go and make a man. And when you’ve made that man, you come back to me.”

And the scientist said: “Ok.” And then turns around, takes a few steps, reaches down, grabs some dirt in his hand, heads off, and God says: “Woah, woah, woah, wait a minute, wait a minute!”

And the scientist turns around and says: “What?”

And God says: “Get your own dirt.”

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: Co-creation - my brother, there is nothing that you can create that has not been created somewhere by the Creator.

We say: “We created a car.”

He says: “You’ve realigned the minerals and things needed for the car.”

Gail/Rick: That’s right.

Red Elk: We say: “We’ve made a toilet.”

He says: “I made the materials; you just realigned it.”

Rick Martin: Let’s get back to talking about the Real Rapture versus the False Rapture.

Red Elk: The True Rapture.

Rick Martin: How will people know the difference?

Red Elk: It is NOT going to come before the troubles. It will come probably more towards the end of the troubles, Armageddon. And, at that time, those few who have not been hunted, and managed to survive, will be taken up and they WILL KNOW CHRIST IS COMING.

And there will only be, I believe, two left. And those will be the two - it might be three, I might be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure it’s two - last prophets who give all the world a hard time, all the world, creating droughts and all kinds of trouble at their beck-and-call. And they will be feared, mightily, by everybody on this planet, except each other. All the other Christians - real, true Christians - are gone, or even those who have gone up in the First Rapture, thinking themselves Christians, and probably are, they’re gone. The only ones left are two people, or three; I can’t recall. And, eventually, they are killed.

TV sets, everything, they throw a huge, huge world party for three days, day and night, looking at these rotting, ripped bodies, not disturbed from where they fell. And at the end of that third day - into the fourth, maybe; I’m not dead sure - they will sit up - cut, bruised, kicked, ripped. Look at the crowd, the TV sets, the newspaper men, all the great leaders who have come to drink over their bodies - and they will be totally alive, just as Christ was, and they will slowly be taken up into the Heavens. And that’s when all hell breaks loose. That’s when Armageddon will be.

Rick Martin: And that will be within our lifetime?

Red Elk: Probably, I don’t know. How old are you.

Rick Martin: 49

Red Elk: Probably, if you live a normal lifetime. It might be within my lifetime. It will definitely be within my daughter’s and my grandchildren’s. I think all of this is going to be within - don’t quote, because I’m never given a time - 25 years is a very safe over-estimate of when I think this will take place.

Rick Martin: Let’s again talk about the False Rapture, because it sounds like people should be alert to such a thing. There is a saying in the Bible, to the effect that even the elect will almost be fooled, or something like that. Is that referring to the False Rapture, do you think?

Red Elk: That’s part of it, but not all of it. The AntiChrist, Lucifer in human body, will con so many - that is a major part that Scripture is speaking of. It’s part of the False Rapture; it’s part of what is actually going to take place; it’s part of many, many things.

The Scripture, we love it - medicine people, good medicine people, each of us have a minimum of three different Bibles, different types, King James, etc. I have five; some I know have 7.

All but me will never admit that they are Christian. I mean all of them but me. And I have no problem because the word Christian means “Christ follower”.

But when you say Christian, all kinds of red flags fly up, and who can blame them. The way the Christians are today, it’s just a bunch of traditionalists with their nose in the wrong place. But, a Christ follower does not have that same connotation; no red flags fly up. It’s easy to call yourself a Christ follower and be it.

It takes time to learn, but it’s very easy, because what is Christ? First off, what is God? Many names for God, many names, in Scriptures alone many names. But they all say that God is love, agape love, unconditional pure love. And if God is love, and Christ is God who came on Earth as a human being only - no godliness any more than you or me - then that was still love on this Earth. And if I’m a Christ follower, what am I? I’m someone who follows the way of love, of purity, and I fall short. But I keep trying; I keep wanting; I keep hungering.

So, Christ follower? Hmmm: love follower. If you’re Buddhist, and love, you too are a Christ follower, i.e., a love follower. If you are a voodooist, and love, and do things out of compassion and caring, not for rewards, that’s Christ love, that’s Love. This fear-forcing of Christ into your life or you’re going to hell is a bunch of bull. It’s LOVE IN YOUR LIFE, or you just might strike that lower place.

That’s the truth of it.

Rick Martin: Let’s talk about one other thing while we’re on this subject, and that is something that, I don’t know how people arrive at this conclusion, but so many Christians are of the belief that Christ died for our sins. I, for one, have said for years that no, that’s not true. He came to show the way.

Red Elk: Are you ready for the answer?

Rick Martin: Sure.

Red Elk: Alright.

The answer is this: They’re right.

The answer is this: You’re right.

Now, let me bridge that. This is part of my job; I’m called “the bridge”.

Christ came as a total human being. God looked down from the Heavens at the people and said: “Why can’t they do what I told them to do? Why are they going amuck like this? Nothing is happening. With them I can’t work.”

And the only way that I’m going to find out is to go down and find out Myself. And the only way that I can do that is to be totally like them - totally. I’ll watch from up here, and let Me down there, in them, as them, walk the Earth and find out if I can find, as a man, what will connect Me, that I told them about, to Me up Here.

So, as a total human being, no more godliness than any of us when we’re born, He came down. During His time, He eventually became what is known as the Savior, the Christ.

I’ve asked many people: “What is the first thing that Christ did that led him on the path to what he ended up as?”

And I get various answers. I, finally, after many years, got the right answer from one person.

People said: “Well, he was baptized.” “He went to church.” “He did this; he did that.” And that’s all true, but that’s not the first thing he did.

The first thing he did was hunger - he hungered to know his Father. He, as a human being and as a Jew, a Jewish human being, saw all the rules and rituals, and heard all the great stories - Moses parted the water - and within walking distance, he could go to some great man’s grave who the stories were about. But nothing was happening; hadn’t happened for 200, or better, years - nothing. God was “dead”. It was just becoming fables and myths.

And yet, they claim He was the Father of their people. Well, he wondered if there really was a God. If there was, why weren’t things happening? So, he hungered to find out if that was a bunch of bs, or true. And he hungered to know the Father of his people - not the dad of conception, but the Dad of the people.

He, as a human being, hungered, and in that hunger, he started finding truths, until eventually he did certain things. He went into the desert. He fasted. And the Bible said he went into the wilderness to fast often, not just the forty days and nights. He himself was baptized. He did many things. And he said: “Follow me.” And if people will do exactly what he did, they can do exactly what medicine people can do who follow him - love.

Now, in so doing, at the end times of this great search of his, and this great in-knowledge that he was receiving, he recognized himself as a good possibility of being “the Savior”, “the Christ”; and in that, he knew that the Christ was going to die a horrible death.

But, he prayed so hard that blood came out of his pores, so says Scriptures. He didn’t want any part of the way that death was coming about, no part. Himself, his tonal, his physical mind and body didn’t want it, not if it could help it.

But his spiritual mind said: “Nevertheless, Father, Your Will be done, not mine.”

He went to the cross to prove his own convictions, as well as prove to the world that, by doing what he had done, and learned, and had taught, that there is no death. And he willingly went to that cross, and was put to death, to prove to himself, and everybody else, that God was alive.

Christ, literally, died for his own convictions; died to prove that all he had learned in his hunger walk to find the Father of his people was true, and the only thing left to prove it was no death. So he died to prove to the world that the Creator lived for them. He died to prove to himself that the Creator lived for him; and the rest is history.

People look at Christ as some kind of gifted guy. Yeah, he had a lot of money when he was a baby. A bunch of camels came with loot. But, nevertheless, they look at him like he was the Son of God. What a bunch of dweebs. They claim they are sons of God through adoption. Well why don’t they act it? Don’t make excuses for your lack of doing, your lack of faith. And don’t write new words in the Bible.

So far, I have found every Christian to be nothing but a liar. ALL claim to believe 100% in the Word of God - until they don’t believe it. And then they make an excuse or write it out. A bunch of liars! And I’ve told them, too, to their face, pastors included. And then I point it out, and they look awful sick when I’m done.

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Rick Martin: This may be off-track, it may not be. Are you familiar with Christ going on after the crucifixion, going on to teach many, many years in different places?

Red Elk: I’m familiar with the so-called truth of that. I’m familiar with the fact that people are claiming he was married, and had children. It is not so. His brother, who carried the last name, if you would, was married and had children. No, Christ did not. He came back for a short period; over 500, I believe, saw him, talked to him. And then he did go up into the air. Christ taught, and we have learned, as medicine people, how to “split”. For instance, I can literally - and it’s hard for me to do this - be seen, sit with, eat, drink, drive a car, at 11 different places at once. It’s called “splitting”. Some people know how to do this. Christ is not dead. He’s not spirit. He does live in the Heavens, and has learned to do the same thing, but he has chosen to do so inside a believer’s body. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: I think so. Can you explain it?

Red Elk: He comes into you. Where I have learned to - I do not go in, even at invitation. I don’t; it’s not my job; it’s not my safety zone; it’s not what I’m ordered to do. I do not go in and possess, or occupy, another human being; I don’t do it.

But, HE is perfect. He can and does do it. Scripture says: “Invite Him into your life.” The Bible says: “Invite me in, and I will come in.” At your personal commitment, your own personal ok, the living Christ does a split and appears in front of you, and sits down and sups with you, and you with him. He comes inside you to help you, at your own, personal invitation.

So, no, Christ did not come back and walk the Earth as a single man, all over the place; no. And he certainly did not get married, no.

[Interviewer’s Note: As an investigative journalist with a longtime, special, personal interest in this particular subject matter, over the years I have managed to accumulate a number of books which document the journey of Christ AFTER the crucifixion, which includes sojourns to India and Kashmir, among other places.

For those of you wishing to research this subject yourself, here are a few titles you might want to study:

• He Walked The Americas by L. Taylor Hansen (1963, Amherst Press)

• Jesus Lived In India - His Unknown Life Before and After The Crucifixion by Holger Kersten (1986, Element Books, ISBN: 0-906540-90-9)

• The Talmud Of Jmmanuel (ISBN: 0-926524-12-7)

• The Jesus Conspiracy - The Turin Shroud & The Truth About The Resurrection by Holger Kersten & Elmar R. Gruber (Element Books, ISBN: 1-85230-666-1)

• The Jesus Mystery - Of Lost Years and Unknown Travels by Janet Bock (ISBN: 0-937736-00-7)

• Jesus’ Tomb In India - Debate On His Death And Resurrection by Paul C. Pappas (ISBN: 0-89581-946-5)

• Where Did Jesus Die? by J.D. Shams (ISBN: 1-85372-190-5)

• Jesus In India by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (ISBN: 1-85372-196-4)

According to all of the above books, Christ’s brother Didymos (the twin) Judas Thomas traveled with Christ to India. Didymos Judas Thomas preached throughout India, and was eventually killed on the Central/East coast of India, on a hillside just outside the town of Madras. He was unmarried throughout his life. - R.M.]

But, he IS in anyone who is dead serious about growing spiritually. That’s him, his own personal split body, physical body, inside, when you are serious and ask him about it. And even then, he does not take control. Even then, he leaves you to do your own will, and he is there to pick you up when you fall, and to give you strength, falling or walking.

Does that answer your question?

Rick Martin: Yes.

The battle that is about to ensue, or is happening now - Christ has a battle in front of him with Lucifer, also, doesn’t he?

Red Elk: Nope, nope, nope. You see, Lucifer already knows he has lost.

Rick Martin: Sure he does.

Red Elk: He knows it. But he will come as a roaring lion. He knows that he cannot take souls, any more than he can get. Those who are, so-called, perfectly possessed are his. And he gets them.

But, no. What he’s doing is just coming as a roaring lion. He is making all the peoples from all the planets come over and cause all the hurt and harm to each other. He knows, when those people die, if they’re going into the Heavens or not. He already knows this. He knows he’s lost. He’s got just a few from each planet - himself, personally, who will belong to him. He knows he’s already lost.

So what is the war in the Heavens now? Just the very beginning of that roaring lion - ripping, shredding, screaming, anger, hate, madness.

Do you understand?

Rick Martin: I know that Christ lives. I know that he is watching very carefully what is happening on the planet now, and at some point his role is going to be very direct.

Red Elk: Oh yes, Armageddon.

Rick Martin: How do you perceive Christ’s role in what is coming?

Red Elk: He’s the finisher. I can say no more than that. I should not have to. HE IS THE FINISHER. But it’s only the finisher for this time. We will have some time - close to 3,000 almost 4,000 years before the FINAL DAY, the DAY OF JUDGMENT COMES.

Rick Martin: The last few decades have brought about a great number of channels. What is your feeling or knowing about channeled material?

Red Elk: In general, dangerous; overall, dangerous; and overall, b.s.

Gail Cortright: Thank you, thank you.

Rick Martin: Along this same line, how to you see Creator having a voice in these End Times? How do you see that manifesting?

Red Elk: I don’t understand the question.

Rick Martin: I’m not sure I’m asking this right.

Gail Cortright: In my opinion, directly to people who have that connection with Creator.

Red Elk: I’m still not sure of the question. That’s alright, let’s get it right. Let’s get it where I can answer it.

Rick Martin: In these End Times there is a great deal of turmoil, conflict, confusion among people. Creator is alive and well, and always has been, and Christ is alive and well. How do you see the confused people receiving their answer from God when petitioned? Only quietly, within themselves, or through speakers?

Red Elk: There will be, and are, true prophets. When a prophet speaks, a prophet of God, there is such an authority, such an unshakable authority, that behind the words themselves, they know they are listening to something so strong, it is possibly incomprehensible. Those are the people of God, the prophets of God.

Will they come quietly? Many will come quietly. Many will hear the Word of God in their mind as they read the Word of God. If they seek the Creator’s truth, in the Word, by reading, and ask the Creator to show Himself to them, trying to disregard what they believe, or heard, or were taught - just total, like a brand new baby - God will talk to them. Each individual word will blow-up like a shell.

God needs no interpreter. He needs nothing. All He wants, and really needs, if you want to call it a need, is for honesty; people with true hearts who are honestly looking for the truth.

And they’re not going to find it in any denomination, any religion. They will find it, it ends up, in one thing only: love; and that, I mean, is nothing to do with human love; this is GOD LOVE.

They will find that oneness with God. And the whole group finding this oneness will be the TRUE BODY OF BELIEVERS. You can call yourself Buddhist, Christian believer or Christ follower, Muslim, you can go there and kneel on your rug and pray to the East in the name of God. For a Muslim that name is Allah. There should be no fight over names. Allow the way they feel comfortable in their culture. If they want to remain there, fine, just as love, pure love.

Christ, didn’t die for one religion. He died for all mankind, on all planets, in all planes, all times. One guy, and only one, and it happened here on this planet, died for everyone, and proved that that Word that he followed, he searched for, he hungered after, and he learned and taught. It is in Scripture how to do what he did. It’s taught - proved to himself and proved to the world that what he learned was true. Love is the answer. And people, no matter how they get to that conclusion, and fall completely upon that conclusion, go nowhere else but in that conclusion, they are the Body of Believers; they are the so-called Church. And I don’t care if they’re Black, Yellow, Green, Plaid. I don’t like it, but if they have to kill a chicken because that’s their culture, and pray to God, maybe God will lead them out of that. That’s not my business. My business is to love my brother, who loves my Father, just like I love Him.

Gail Cortright: Well, I personally, going back to what you were talking about earlier, about false prophets, whatever you want to call them. A lot of people are really afraid, or don’t believe that they can have that connection to Christ, or to Creator, themselves.

Red Elk: They run after false prophets.

Gail Cortright: That’s right.

Red Elk: Worshiping and awe-inspired by false prophets.

Gail Cortright: That’s right. In speaking about the channeled material, so often -

Red Elk: So often, the channeled material is so true, you accept it. So, all they have to do is insert one untruth. And to me, the Bible, its got many names on its cover - it says “holy” Bible, in general.

I see it also says: War - A Manual Of Warfare, on how to defeat the enemy.

I also see that it says: Love.

And I also see that it says: Safety Net.

If people would just sit down and read the Scriptures - never mind what they feel about it. I don’t care if they’re Muslims; I don’t care if they’re atheists. If they just read Scriptures, like they pick up any other book, and READ IT, then when a decision comes, they will know, automatically, if it is morally correct, or if it’s immoral, or if it’s against the Law. If it is against the Law, and the Law happens to be morally incorrect - you know, in Germany, WWII, the Law made it morally incorrect - YOU FOLLOW LOVE, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOUR LIFE.

Gail Cortright: That’s a pretty strong statement.

Red Elk: Well, my sister -

Gail Cortright: I agree with you, by the way.

Red Elk: I have many people who call me, write me - boy do I get it! Their “Guides” tell them to do this, and their “Guides” tell them that; and they want me to think highly that they’ve got “Guides”, or are following a human being. And they claim I have a “Guide”. I have no “Guide”. I have a guideline.

Gail Cortright: (Laughter)

Red Elk: I have no enemies. If they think I’m their enemy, they are mistaken. I mean, that’s their decision. I have two people I won’t even go around, but that’s because I don’t like what they do.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: But I stand back. They are my brother and sister. It happens to be a man and a woman. And I pray for them, because they are my brother and sister, and I am not to “down them”, I am not to hurt them, bad-mouth them, and on and on. I don’t have to like what they’re doing, but I love them because they came from the same MIND WOMB that I did, the MIND WOMB OF GOD.

Gail Cortright: Right, right.

Rick Martin: Do you perceive a time when we all will be sitting around the campfire, in the next dimensions, telling tales of this experience, and laughing?

Red Elk: I cannot “knowingly” say that. By knowing, I’m speaking truly, completely, wholly knowing. Maybe we will do something similar, laughing at our own mistakes, our own stupidity.

Rick Martin: That’s what I mean.

Red Elk: Not laughing at somebody else’s.

Rick Martin: I was referring more to ourselves.

Red Elk: Not saying, “Do you remember when YOU did it?”

Instead, let them tell you they remember it. And then, enjoy it. There is no bad. You look back on it, and overall, it was all for your growth. There will be nothing around any campfire. If there is a campfire, that will be nothing more, or less, than love.

Gail Cortright: So what do you think about people who say this is all a play? There’s no right, there’s no wrong; it’s just a play.

Red Elk: In truth, my sister, when the Creator, on the Day of Judgment - first off, let me back-up just a bit. Hades exists only for your own “pleasure”, believe it or not; call it displeasure if you’d like. You believe, subconsciously, that you belong there, so you go there. Or, you believe you’re going to Heaven, so you go there.

In the Final Days, ALL will stand before the Creator, even the Angels. And they will - now, this is the Great Judgment Day, 1,000 years away yet, or 3,000, or 4,000. Nevertheless, you go to hell because, subconsciously, you believe that’s where you belong. It’s not necessarily God’s belief. But even in that, He doesn’t go against your will.

You believe you may go to Heaven. Yet, Scriptures say, many say, “Lord, Lord” - and I will say “I know you not.” They are nothing more than chaff in the wheat, but they believe they belong up there; and thus, they will go up there. But on the Great Day of Judgment, they’ll find out that’s not where they belong.

And those who are down below, many of those will find out they’ve just judged themselves; that’s not the way God judges. And there will be a great shifting. And you will hear a lot of smacking, as people kick each other in the butt, and kick themselves in the butt. Many who are in Lucifer’s realm, being tortured now, according to THEIR OWN BELIEFS, will find out they had no need to be there. And many, right now in the Heavens, will find out they have no right to be there.

And death will - this is the death the Bible speaks of fearing - death will be, kind-of imagine all of the ones who have been so self-centered, so self-possessed, or literally sold-out entirely to Lucifer, in all ways; look at them like a great mass of tadpoles in a great sack of tadpoles. Do you understand what I mean?

Gail Cortright: Yes.

Red Elk: Each tadpole, in it’s own tiny little sack, within this great mass of sack, is an individual being, a soul, a human being - that will be cast out of God’s Mind. There is the FINAL DEATH. There is the eternal hell. Though you be in a mass of other tadpoles, you will not be aware of any other tadpole in this great mass. You will be aware of only yourself, separated forever from God, and no more to ever, ever have a chance to repent. You’ve done it all. THERE, my friend, is a hell worse than Hades is now.

Answered the question?

Gail Cortright: I know what the question was, everybody talking about how this is a play.

Red Elk: Oh, I’ll tell you, this is a very serious play. You’d better play it right.

Gail Cortright: That’s kind-of how I feel. When people talk about, “Oh, this is just a play” -

Red Elk: That’s their path, sister; let them think it.

Gail Cortright: Yeah, absolutely.

Red Elk: We have no choice. We cannot force, or in any way make another change their path.

Gail Cortright: That’s right.

Red Elk: All you can do is live YOUR path, and live it in such a manner that it makes them hungry to find out what your path is all about. Only example, ONLY LOVE will bring these ratty moths to the light, and whether they choose that light or not, is still their choice.

Gail Cortright: That’s true.

Red Elk: You cannot win them all.

Gail Cortright: And when you’re talking of love, a lot of people have the, I think, misconception that when you’re talking about love, even unconditional love - like you were saying, you don’t have any enemies, you stay away from people. You love them, but you don’t like what they do. And I think a lot of people, when they think about love, they feel like they have to accept everything that anybody does.

Red Elk: No, don’t cast your pearls before the swine, which can mean many things within that one phrase. You don’t put yourself in the way, stepping in front of a freight train that is not going to stop - in this case, a human being who’s got his/her own way - get off the track and just be a light.

Gail Cortright: Exactly, exactly. But a lot of people think they have to get hit by that freight train, because that’s what love means.

Red Elk: No, no, no; personally I think that they’re crazy. (Laughter)

Gail Cortright: (Laughter) So do I.

Red Elk: The Bible speaks about, again, the Safety Net; I use the Bible as my Safety Net. When someone does you wrong, you know, turn your cheek and let them hit you on the other side, like that; forgive them X times X amount, like that. But yet, there comes a point where, why torture yourself ? They are God’s children, stand back. Get out of their reach, and let God do the work. Just pray to God, as you pity them in humility - in honesty and in compassion pray for those ones.

Gail Cortright: Absolutely.

Red Elk: Don’t get beat-up. Christ had to stand there and get beat-up because he was proving, to himself, and to the world, that it’s worth it, overall.

Rick Martin: You write about the Red Sky. Can you explain what the Red Sky is?

Red Elk: The Red Sky is in Scriptures. I don’t believe it tells in Scriptures, I might be mistaken, on how long this will last. It is also in our own Indian prophecies. We call it “the Orange Sky”.

If I recall the prophecies correctly, it will last day and night for 7 or 8 days. When that great sign in the sky appears, that means that, from that moment on, you can travel instead of 24 hours ahead, you can travel weeks and months ahead, because there are no more probables, no more chances to turn left or right. We, then, are definitely on the no longer probable, but the dead-on End of the Trail.

Rick Martin: So the hourglass is empty at that point?

Red Elk: That’s it. We have no chances, from there on in. The Great Sign in the sky.

Rick Martin: So you’re saying, after the False Rapture, many of the true believers will still be on the planet, but it will be a very turbulent time, a very painful time, physically, for many people?

Red Elk: But more so for those who are left behind, as believers, of those who believe in pure love, it will be far worse on them then the others. But, don’t misunderstand me. The others are going to be going through all kinds of hell themselves, drinking their own urine, for lack of water, eating human beings, for lack of food. It is going to be the worst thing you have seen in your life. There has never been, ever, ever been on any planet, any dimension, any plane, a catastrophe like is going to happen here when the great mousetrap springs its steel bar across the neck of all who have come to nibble at we, the bait.

Rick Martin: But we, as cheese in the trap, will also be caught in the physical experience of whatever unpleasantness there is.

Red Elk: Yes, yes, yes - until they’re taken-up, or they might die before. But they will be taken-up. It could be hours, or days, I have no idea, before the actual event called Armageddon comes. These are the ones, the survivors, the ones who are left behind when the others are taken into captivity. And only two will be left (or three, I’m not sure, like I said) - two or three prophets.

Rick Martin: Now, ultimately this planet is moving into Radiance, as I understand it.

Red Elk: Oh, you bet. Because you see, we’ve been dwelling on nothing but the bad aspects of what’s coming.

Rick Martin: Right, let’s shift toward the radiant aspect.

Red Elk: Right. And people worry about what’s coming. They don’t see the Great Ahead. When that mousetrap is finally snapped, there will be few human beings on this planet left alive. And believe me - I really doubt if there will be ANY human beings IN or ON this Earth; they’re all taken off. At least, that’s the way it looks; I can’t say for certain.

So, we will be all alone. Scriptures talk about a third of the planet’s population will die, through pollution and what not. And that’s already taking effect, now. But if people read carefully, it will say, after that, a third of those left will also die. And if they read carefully on, they will find a third of those left will die - leaving us very, very few humans.

I don’t know, 10 million, whatever, across our planet. I may be way off on my numbers. But nevertheless, a third, a third, and a third, gone; then x amount will remain. There will be no more Red man. There will be no more Black man, or White, or Chinese, or any other color or creed. You might now hate Mexicans, or Indians, or Chinese, or whatnot. At that time, if you are a survivor who has gone through all of this - if you, say you hate a Black person, just can’t stand to breathe around them, and they you, if you happen to run across one of them on the vast, devastated island called Earth, and see each other, and one’s male and one’s female, believe me, you will run and embrace each other. It might be the only human you have seen in months, and you’ll be glad.

Anyway, odd thing is, during that time it will take 30 years to regroup, to regroup our own individual census. Because there will be no roads, you’d be lucky to find a road that’s two or three miles long before it’s all blown-up, or torn-up by earthquakes or wars. No roads, no factories, cities - it will just be half-crazed people living in cities. Stay away from them. The real “Road Warrior” movies, that type of thing. It’s going to be hell.

That first 30 years, a lot people are going to perish because they don’t know how to survive. They don’t know how to hold a dead branch and turn it into a fruit-bearing branch within their hands, and eat the fruit there from. They don’t know; we do. They don’t know it can be done. Again, the only limit is: you can’t be God, Lucifer, or Christ - that’s it.

And my job, what I’ve been ordered to do, is to teach that you can do everything but those things!

And when people come to me, I spend two days with them. If they’re dead serious about learning, I give them enough information that, on their own, they can continue between them and the Creator, and grow and grow and grow, and hold a dead branch, and shut their eyes, and image it into a reality, and eat of it. They can go to a cesspool of a little 3-inch trickle of water, and remember what it was like before the wars, and before the tribulation, remember it, and image it - I cannot give that stronger - image it so strongly that the water, when they open their eyes, it’s now a 5-foot wide, sparkling, tinkling, beautiful brook - not pollution, not 3 inches wide.

We can recreate from our own mind, for the Scripture says “Ye are as gods” - little g. The medicine people know this. Not everyone knows everything about how to do everything. And, frankly, I’ve asked the medicine people to come out, to quit hiding these sacred secrets, to quit being so damned heady that you are afraid to give this out to the world, in general. I’ve got a lot of “enemies” out there. [As a result of reluctance from his contemporaries to agree with Red Elk’s request. They’d rather keep the knowledge to themselves.]

Rick Martin: How do they respond to you when you say this?

Red Elk: Only 1, 2 have responded. And one, saying I’m right, but doing nothing about it; the other one saying I’m right, and starting to do. And, I’ll tell you, the Red man, and all others who are of medicine across the world, who do not do this, we are the equivalent of the pastors that the Scripture says: “Give them the knowledge. You are responsible for your flock.”

Our flock is the world. And Scriptures tell the pastors: “Teach them.” If you do not, it’s going to be on your head!

And I tell you, there’s many different denominations in the Christian world, many, many - well, all really - of all religions, every religion you can name - except for the religion of those who continuously, with no exceptions, worship Lucifer - they’ve got to rise-up, they’ve got to go beyond their pride, their false humility. People are coming to them to learn, and all of a sudden the “pastors” are getting all puffy-shirted about it; they don’t want to give up their little secrets. They want people to come to them, a bunch of false gods, sitting around.

Gail Cortright: That’s exactly right.

Red Elk: Listen, I don’t care if you do put a rug down and pray to the East. God bless you for doing it. You love God that much, in that culture - go for it, my brother; go for it, my sister. Add love, and you will be perfect in spirit. Throw out the traditional crap; add love. The Bible is not for Christians. The Bible is not a religion. The Bible is the way of life. Love is the way of life.

Gail Cortright: And that’s the bottom-line, isn’t it?

Red Elk: Yes, it is. People look at the Bible and say: “Look at this killing, and that war, and blah, blah, blah….”

“Look deeply, my brothers and sisters” I say. “Look deeply!” They did not obey Him, and He said: “If you don’t, you’re gonna get a spanking.” So why are you so stupid as to blame God for holding up to His word? That God is a good Father. Many children have straightened-up because of a good, swift spanking.

Gail Cortright: That’s very true.

Red Elk: I’m probably not what you expected, but I am an Inner Heyoka. And we learned purity. My ancestors of this society - not personal ancestors but society ancestors - they learned purity. There were only 13 left when the Christ left, only 13.

And over the years, people came to the original 13 who followed the Christ, followed his learning and his teachings, and would say: “Heal us of this, please; heal us of that, please” - until they came to us as if we were their slaves, with nothing better in life but to do what they wanted.

And they failed to start bringing us food for our time spent with them. We couldn’t go out and hunt. We couldn’t get firewood for our lodges. Just because they happen to be so damned nice to come in here and say: “Hey, pray for me.”

Understand? At first, it was pretty good. But they forgot that. And one of the 13 decided enough is enough, and when they called for him, he said: “Ok, I’ve got an idea.”

And this one went to the encampment asking for prayer. This one brought drums, and rattles, and masks. And he began chanting, and rattling, and doing a dance, and blowing smoke, and all kinds of crud. He put on a vaudeville act, and entertained them, as well as did what he was there for in the first place - purity healing, without entertainment. They liked what they saw; they gave him money (or the equivalent); he came home with a big breadbasket type of thing.

From there on in, everybody said: “Let’s go to Green Eagle”, or whoever, “because he entertains us. He’s pretty funny. He’s a lot of fun, and his entertainment works.”

Well, it works without his entertainment. He knew that. But he was after trying to get them to supply the needs of him and his family.

The other 12, they did not turn that way. So, tradition began with Mr. 13. That’s where tradition is; that’s where it came from. It was not purity out of tradition, but tradition out of purity.

So, today they come to me, and I have to ask: “Creator, what would you have me do?” And He will tell me what to do, or what not to do, and I have to obey Him.

He’ll say: “They asked in the Indian way, so give in the Indian way” - which is tradition. And I do. They expect it that way. It healed grandma. It healed great grandma, six aunts, and a cousin, that way. So they put their faith in the healing power of that way, including the prayers. And the Indian people have gone total tradition.

I have had a word of one I know, who, a few years ago - over 5 years now - medicine man, a very, very spiritually-minded medicine man, a young guy, he said: “I am so happy to see our people coming back to the traditional ways of being Indian.”

By that he means, for example, the ways of learning to talk with Earth Mother and all that.

And he said: “But I fear it is not enough.” And that’s the truth of it. The full-blood traditional Indians are running on nothing but fumes. And in not many years ahead, they will not be able to go out and pick the plant that heals this or that. So, without knowing purity, they will die. And those who come to them will die, because they have only learned the plants. They have only learned the traditional way. They have not learned to connect and do it without the crutch. I tell you, it might take a 100-mile walk to find one plant to heal a particular thing, and that’s all they’ve learned; that’s all they know. They have lost their spiritual touch with the Creator.

Gail Cortright: Right.

Red Elk: What else?

Rick Martin: I’m looking at my notes from your booklet. It almost seems off-track from where we’ve gone. I am curious, at the very least, about these two Queens, but I don’t want to detract from where we’ve been.

Red Elk: Well, for the sake of the reader, I have taken from my book - a very large book but it’s all in handwriting, it’s not typed; typed it should run about 1400 pages - how to do everything that I talk about. I say everything, but that’s not true. There are some things I’m not allowed to tell. It would just go into the wrong hands and cause great trouble.

But almost everything. I teach also, through that book, how I’ve learned to come to different knowing. And when I say knowing, I say that in huge, triple-sized letters: K N O W I N G! When I say “I know it”, believe me, I know it. Whether you believe it or not, that’s your problem.

Anyway, this part spoken of [in the shorter booklet which Rick had a copy of ] is just the lifting of a very few of the pages out of that particular large book. “The Queens” referred to are the Lizard Queens, the heads of the Lizard people, the Draconian people; they’re both women. And for centuries they have despised each other. I don’t know, maybe somebody complained about the other one’s cooking.

I don’t know what it all started with; I have no idea. But they just cannot stand each other. And they are at constant bickering with each other.

And they have taken many, from many different worlds. And one Queen has won some of those people to that side, some to the other side. And these are ones who think that they are God.

So, instead of going out and having a slap-fest amongst each other, the two, they use what they have got on their side to fight the other. It is simply control, by one side, against the other side, and the other side against the one side, using us as the slappers, those who do drive-bys, those who do mass killing. Oh, my gosh, it’s just unbelievable.

Most people, in general, can accept Lucifer, but laugh at me about talking about Lizards. And, truthfully, the Lizards are all over the dang place, on this surface, under this surface, out in space, on their worlds. They are quite the conquerors, and they are only 1 of 4 that are in alliance. I call them the “Unholy Alliance” or the “Unholy Four”.

If you only knew how these people work; they work with technology. You have people who have inserts - laugh at that, laugh at an insert, if you please - but there are doctors actually removing strange little glass-like or metallic-like slivers. These are inserts that are put into our human beings, and other human beings on other planets, to tell where you are, tell what your blood-rate is, and so on. But that is only secondary. These Unholy Four, or at least 3 of the 4, dwell on anger, hate, misery, everything ugly.

Rick Martin: Now, to clarify for our readers, we’re not talking about 4 beings, we’re talking about 4 races of beings. Is that right?

Red Elk: Correct. Anyway, they actually have machinery, down below, in our ground, here on this planet, and I assume the rest are the same way, machinery that they can aim at a group, or a person, press a button, and make that person or group react in some ungodly way.

They then, SUCK - and I mean this - suck on the emotion. They have pressed a button, aimed a machine at you, and you are controlled to throw out that emotion. They then suck on it like somebody who’s sipping a cocktail or who just likes to have a midday snack.

They actually walk along, and if they get hungry for a snack, they stop at one of these pieces of machinery, see who’s up there with these inserts, press a damn button, and get a reaction, and suck that energy. Like you and I would stop for an ice cream cone, or drink a soda, or coffee, or a drink of liquor.

Rick Martin: So, when we talk about Lucifer or the adversarial forces thriving on negative energy, it is a literal, actual thing.

Red Elk: Oh, it is, it is. Lucifer is a different matter. He doesn’t thrive on that. All he wants is conquering. He wants to be God, period! He doesn’t get off on that. His demons do, but he doesn’t.

Rick Martin: Where do the Greys, the so-called Grey aliens, factor into this?

Red Elk: The Greys are part of the Unholy Four.

Rick Martin: You call them the “Bee People”?

Red Elk: Yeah, I do. Most of the Natives call them Insect People. I like to call them Bee People, mainly because - first off, let me say this: These, out of the Unholy Four, do not suck on energy. It doesn’t turn them on at all. They have other reasons to be in the Four. Their reason is: originally they became as they were, which is now an almost totally extinct people, because they went, eons ago, to the Federation of Planets, asking to be allowed to come to this Earth to experiment, to get our DNA into their bodies, so they could eliminate hate, anger, and so forth. They were given permission.

Now, again, these people are playing God. They didn’t go to God; they didn’t know God. And the others, as far as they’re concerned, they’re in charge of this. They gave them permission. In so doing, they were successful. They got the DNA - but in so doing, that eliminated ALL EMOTIONS of the Greys, ALL EMOTIONS.

Now, the odd thing is - I’m speaking of the tall Greys, the real Greys. The little short guys are like “plants” - greenery, growing - with the ability to think for themselves, but are basically nothing more than cloned shorties of the real thing, to do the bidding of the real thing; kind-of a slave. And there are many, many of those. And easy come, easy go; one gets killed or whatnot, just grow another one.

Meanwhile, the rest, the true Greys, are much taller, by quite a bit, than the little ones. And I have never seen a female Grey, true Grey. It appears that their playing with emotions - what actually happened is, it killed their sex life.

People need to be held, touched, loved, sweet-talked. Basically, when a woman is being raped, she might have an orgasm, but if she is raped constantly, she can turn that orgasm off. If she is being violated, without love emotions, she will turn it off, consciously or subconsciously. And this is what happened to the original Greys; the love emotion was gone.

So, over the centuries, sex life ceased to exist. So, those original Greys are almost, now, extinct. They then started growing these little guys as a workforce to DNA us. Again, they went back to the damn council, and the council gave them permission. They are utilizing our DNA to get the emotions back into them, before they totally become obliterated.

So, the Greys are working with these other three, and thus, I call them the Unholy Four. But just for their own agenda; they do not have the desire to suck fear and hate and all of that negative-energy stuff. They just want to get DNA back into their genetics and get their race back on foot again.

The little guys, these are God-aware people, like a tree is. They have no soul, these little ones; they don’t need a soul, they’re plants. But they are intelligent, talking, thinking, physical-doing plants. They’re not locked into the ground. They can walk around. And they’re getting their own “high ideas” that if they can overcome the true Greys, their makers, they think, then they can become a race unto ourselves. That’s their plan.

But it’s all in the book I assembled, The Agendas.

So, it’s all a big mess, a big total mess, and frankly it all starts with Lucifer, who came to this planet, and digging deep within our planet, to get to his right heat zone, and then sending his 1/3 angels out throughout all dimensions, times, and planes, who in turn, went deep in-ground, and started being little miniature Lucifers, under command of the great Lucifer, and eventually infiltrated every planet in existence that has human being life. And, like I said, we are a relatively new planet. All these already infiltrated others are now in us, too, and they all claim us. And, in fact, Lucifer, hidden, claims all of us. But only God has us.

Rick Martin: Where do you feel the Pleiadians come into this picture?

Red Elk: You know, I’m not sure. All I know is they have their own agenda. None have an agenda for us. The Pleiadians seem to be pretty nice people. In these bunch of spacecraft that are coming for the false Rapture gathering, a certain number of spacecraft have been allowed that would not do the harm the others will do, into this huge fleet. And, whoever goes on those ships will be awful lucky Christians, I’ll guarantee you. At worst, they will be given robes and stuff, and wash dishes, and be a nanny on another island - but they won’t be eaten alive; they won’t be raped, in general; and they’ll have a pretty easy life compared to the others, a darned easy life.

Rick Martin: Let’s bring this conversation around to here and now. It is a very fearful time on our planet for a lot of people; a crazy time with Bush warring with other nations. What do you see happening, here and now, on the planet, and what words can you give our readers to find solace during a crazy time in our planet’s history.

Red Elk: First off, we are right on time, literally. All that is taking place all around us is no accident, but is a design, placed long ago on the greatest probability. We have been following the greatest probability.

That does not mean that we could not turn around now. We certainly haven’t turned around, yet. But we CAN go down that path instead of hitting the accident, until the skies change. But, nevertheless, everything is running in perfect control.

Remember, there is no death, when you die, no matter how you die, until that final death, that final Day of Judgment, comes, you’re going to go from this life into a much more powerful life. Hopefully you will all wake up - but you’ll get what you want. God isn’t going to go against your will. And some don’t even want to go up or down, they’re afraid. They’re not sure where they belong, so they become “shades” - ghosts to you. And some stay because they want to protect certain areas that are called power spots.

All I can say is: grow spiritually! It’s hard to say, but: don’t worry, be happy; it’s all going according to Plan, and God is not an ant’s step off of the greatest probability. And by the way, He’s on the other probabilities, too! He splits; He knows them all.

Basically, the best thing to do is get in connection with the Scriptures. Get in connection with the Creator in those Scriptures, or in any way that you know is the Creator. And search Him out diligently. Search out what He wants you to do. He will warn you. Learn to pay attention. He will guide you. Learn to pay attention. Be willing to share, but don’t force what you’re being told. Don’t start a damn “follow me” thing - follow Christ.

Look to yourself. You are the first one you should be concerned about in your spiritual growth. If you do so, and grow in love and in spirit, then those within your own household - your wife, or husband, or children, or grandparents, or parents - they will see a difference and hunger, and you can start a fire in them.

And if we can do this, just enough, if enough would listen, and really hunger, and start searching, seeking, and finding, we can change the sky. It can be for our great, great, great, great grandchildren. And everything will be hunky-dorey here, everything will calm down.

Rick Martin: That’s a good place to stop.

Red Elk: This Earth IS paradise, we’re the ones who mess it up. We’re the ones afraid we’re going to slip in it, and yelling about the stench of it all. But guess what? You’re one of those who contributed to the mess! Quit blaming everybody else, and look at yourself.

Gail Cortright: That’s right, look at yourself, and stop waiting for everybody else to do it for you. And that means, to me, while a lot people look at the “upper echelon”, the President, the Enron people, and all that, what they fail to do is look at themselves. And you know what? They’re doing business without integrity, their morals really suck. Excuse me.

Red Elk: Why excuse you?

Gail Cortright: But you know what I mean?

Red Elk: Yes, I do know.

Gail Cortright: They’re looking at all these other people, and they fail to look at themselves, and go: God, you know what, I have no integrity. I have no morals. My children don’t know how to say please and thank you.

Red Elk: Or sir.

Gail Cortright: Right, they have no respect. They’re not taught any. So, I wholeheartedly agree with you when you say you’ve got to start with yourself. And that’s my soap-boxing for the day.

Red Elk: Well, I’ll tell you. If you stop to realize that you are, literally, “wanted” - that’s why you’re here. God wanted you. You are a child of God, automatically. He wanted you, and made you into being. If God can love you, as dirty as you are, then maybe you ought to take a second look at yourself, and say: “I must be worth something.” And start loving yourself, because Papa loves ya.

Gail Cortright: That’s right, there you go.

Rick Martin: That’s a good note to end on.

Red Elk: So, we end for now.

[Then, later, some follow-up comments.]

Red Elk: We speak, in our Indian way, about learning Sacred Silence and Duality of Spirit. And, I tell you, it’s really something. This really puts you in connection with yourself, and once you start seeing yourself, you start reaching out for help, because you see yourself, and you’re a pretty ugly looking kid, you know. And this God, who loves you, you start searching out and reaching out, in your blindness, in your filth, that’s in your eyes and everywhere else, and He reaches down and touches your hand and says: “I am here.” And then helps clean you up. But it starts with Sacred Silence, the silence that starts with looking inward, and then looking outward.

For the people who want to grow - and many have written to me - I highly recommend certain books. In spite of your belief, above all, start reading the Bible. Never mind what you get out of it, reading, you don’t know what you’re doing to your inner God-being, the one we call Nagual. This is an angel inside of you who needs to eat like you need to eat. Start reading your Bible. And seriously, I don’t care what religion you’re from, or non-religion, ask God to reveal Himself. It’s between Him and you, nobody else. And watch out, if you’re serious.

So, I recommend the Bible. And for those who can afford it, and really want to learn a little more about it, I recommend a concordance. It’s a pretty expensive book, and any pastor can tell you how to read it. After that, I recommend the book by Tom Brown, Jr., called The Tracker, and then, after that, the one by Tom Brown, Jr., again, called Awaken Spirits. Read those two books in the order given: The Tracker first; don’t cheat; then Awaken Spirits. You will learn how to go into the Sacred Silence. You will learn about duality of spirit, and you will, thus, learn what the first book shows. By doing all of this, you can do the impossible. The gentleman who taught Mr. Tom Brown, Jr. was also one of my many, many teachers. Buy those books, they’re $12.98 each; don’t cheat.

Gail Cortright: I think we have those books, actually.

Rick Martin: I think we do.

Red Elk: Use those books; reread them. You will connect. I call them pot-rated books, because you’re sitting on the pot [toilet], while other people are pounding to get in. And you say: “I’m not done with that particular chapter. Go outside!”

Gail/Rick: (Laughter)

Red Elk: I just love them. My wife, who is a real hard-core-type Christian, or has been, she just fell in love with them. And they sure open your eyes.

Rick Martin: Thank you for recommending them.

Red Elk: Aho! Highly, highly - but please, don’t deny that Word of God - I don’t care if you are Buddhist, atheist, don’t deny it. You’re making one of the biggest mistakes of your life. IT’S JUST BETWEEN YOU AND GOD. I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT A RELIGION. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONALISM. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK THAT LEADS YOU TO THE ONLY WAY OF LIFE, OTHER THAN DARKNESS - AND THAT IS LOVE.

I’ll let ’er close at that.

Gail Cortright: That’s a good word to close it on.

Rick Martin: Thank you, very much.

Gail Cortright: That’s perfect.

Red Elk: Well, I don’t think you’ll be able to get all that in.

Rick Martin: We will, you’ll be surprised.

Red Elk: Half-spaced, tiny little letters?

Rick Martin: (Laughter) We’ll make room.

Red Elk: I sound like a preacher, I can’t help it. That’s the way I’ve been taught, and I learned through it. And I found it all true. And we’re taught to test everything. What you read, what you hear, what you see, test it and see if it’s morally correct, and not against the law. And if it’s needed, then do it.

You can fly. All you’ve got to do is get into a child-like mind. Be a 3-year-old again, pretend. And when you forget you’re trying to fly, but you’re having such a ball pretending, and you start yelling: “Weee, I can fly. I can fly” to “Weee, I AM flying! I AM flying!” Not a future event, but a NOW event. You WILL levitate. All these things are possible. Get rid of all those cant's. That’s just positive trash.

Well, I guess we’ll have to call it quits.

Rick Martin: I’m full.

Red Elk: I’m full.

Rick Martin: It’s been an honor.

Red Elk: No, the honor goes to Him, certainly not to me.

Gail Cortright: There you go.

Rick Martin: We’ll thank you for all of our readers. We know that our readers will be very appreciative.

Red Elk: We’ll see; there’s no mistakes. We know we can’t win ’em all. But, hopefully, we’ll shake some minds. Whether they want to go back to sleep, that’s their business.

Then, a day or two later, one more question.]

Rick Martin: I realized there was one additional question that is quite important, that I did not ask you. I’m sure people will be wondering. So, I wondered if I could ask you now?

Red Elk: Why not.

Rick Martin: There are many people who believe that there are enlightened beings who live within the Earth in beautiful cities of light, such as those found under Lake Titicaca, under the Gobi Desert, under the North Pole, and under Mt. Shasta. Is that correct? And if so, who are these beings?

Red Elk: I’m not sure if that’s dead correct, because that’s where the cities are, you understand, some of them. Right, let me make that clear. By saying “such as” means that there ARE those kind of cities under there. No! The only crystal cities that I’ve ever seen, in all my life - I’m not even, to this day, sure if I was looking at Heaven, or a great planet, but it wasn’t on this Earth.

Rick Martin: Are you familiar with Admiral Byrd, and his diary?

Red Elk: I’ve been familiar with Mr. Byrd since 11, or so.

Rick Martin: He says that he went into the North Pole, and met with these beings of Light, at the North Pole, within the Earth, at the great entrance of the North Pole. Now, who are these beings?

Red Elk: I’ve never seen them.

Rick Martin: So, you don’t really know?

Red Elk: I have no idea if they still exist, or not. There are a type of being that may be on the same line as a Lighted being, and this was told to me by the Queen of the Innerland. At least, she told me the name of them. She called them Rock Flyers. She explained that they are a form of spiritual being, but physical spiritual. They have the ability to fly, and actually live in the stones, within the rocks and stones themselves. And she inferred they are some form of an Angel.

Rick Martin: Now, would that be the entity who is the soul of Earth?

Red Elk: No, no. She said they are the Angels of her people, the fairies and stuff; she calls them the Totems, as we do, and said: “As well as your people” - inferring those who have Totems on the surface.

And, Mr. Waters, of Mel’s Hole, when he was on the air last [on Art Bell’s radio program], he had quite an experience with a living being. And that’s why I went to find out what this was all about. And she said he had a very, very, extremely rare case of one of these Rock Flyers taking shape within this animal, in the only way it knew, in the only opportunity it could, and coming up, and Mr. Waters had an actual healing experience with his Totem, one of these Rock Flyers, that can take on different forms.

Rick Martin: That’s interesting to know that’s what that was.

Red Elk: Well, that’s what she told me. I’ve never run into Rock Flyers; I’ve seen many Totems.

Rick Martin: Now, again, who told you this?

Red Elk: The Innerland Queen.

Rick Martin: Is she a being of Light?

Red Elk: No.

Rick Martin: She’s in spirit?

Red Elk: Oh, no, no.

Rick Martin: This is a real being?

Red Elk: She’s as real as the fairies and stuff. I don’t even know her name. We’ve gotten, over time, onto a fairly good relationship. In short, she never gets totally upset with me, or anything. And I don’t have to go in there bowing and scraping, and stuff like that. She will send a messenger if she needs to see me, and wants to see me. One of the elders will come and tell me so; then we’ll make arrangements for a meeting time.

Rick Martin: There is one person here who I work with, who has done a lot of reading over the years, including the Admiral Byrd material, and he’s always been under the impression that in the very center of the Earth there is a Great Sun. Is that a misunderstanding?

Red Elk: The only Great Sun that it would be, that I have actually witnessed, in spirit I have gone right into it, and that would be quite similar to our Sun out here, just molten lava, and heat galore.

Rick Martin: That’s in the dead center? You’re talking lava within the center?

Red Elk: The # 1 level or layer, the so-called ball. Actually, it is a ball. It’s round.

As for Mr. Byrd’s going in through a hole. I’ve never seen a large depression anywhere around the Earth like that. And I cannot verify that this is true or not. I don’t KNOW it.

But I do believe there is such a depression, kind-of like having a large piece of clay pressed and warm in your hand, and press down maybe an inch and a half thick, and then you take your thumb and you press into it. The depression I’m speaking of, then, with your thumb, curl under that depression to make edges. That, if this is true, if there is such a place, that is the way I perceive it as being. In short, it’s a great cave, with the lid fallen-in.

Rick Martin: But in terms of these “light cities” that people talk about, like under Mt. Shasta, with the Lemurians, supposedly, is that myth? Or, you just don’t know, either way?

Red Elk: I could not say, either way. All I know are the cities that I have personally seen, and these cities are of pure stone - no electricity, no plastic, they’re waiting for the returnees. They have these huge chests that look like what they bury people in Egypt in, a sarcophagus, similar but they don’t have that kind of carving and stuff, but they’re made out of stone, too. And they fit really tight, the lids. And in these chests - and it takes two men, easily, to lift up the lid. In these chests are seeds for planting. And the only ones I’ve ever seen them in are seeds in linen, like cloth, so that when the Long Walkers get there, or the Returnees, if you prefer, get there, they go in with the knowledge of how to plant in the first place. They don’t have tractors. It’s just like you could go out there, and you know to make a row of corn. You’ve got nothing to make it with. You can take a stick and make it.

Rick Martin: Now, the Long Walkers - you’re talking about the Hopi and the Navajo?

Red Elk: Yeah. That’s what the Long Walkers are. But they aren’t the only ones who are going to go in. They are the only ones who are called Long Walkers.

Rick Martin: Have you ever made contact with the soul of the Earth? The entity that represents this planet?

Red Elk: The actual entity of the soul of the Earth, as far as I know - definitely no. I’ve never run into an entity called the soul of the Earth. Frankly, the Earth needs no soul. It’s doing nothing wrong. It’s doing it’s job. Only those who have the will to do, on a consistent basis, right or wrong, as they will it, have soul. Therefore, all human beings, no matter what planet, have souls. Everything else backs up the life of that human being.

There’s Heavens for dogs, Heavens for cats, Heavens for horses - I’ve seen many of them; just beautiful. When a dog dies, I don’t care how vicious the dog is here, it has done no wrong. It might have been trained wrong, or whatnot, but it’s done no wrong. Or, done wrong through madness, like rabies or something, but it is free. It is just free. And these animals, no matter what breed, and birds, and fish, all kinds of things, this Heaven is a mass rolling cloud, for each individual-type animal - you know, dogs for dogs, horses for horses. And I say it’s like that. It’s a cloud of pure - say we’re going to dog Heaven, right? It is a cloud of absolutely pure dog awareness joy. It is something else. I’ve had to help some animals into this Heaven, including two or three of my own who were so attached to us, they wanted to stay with us. No, it’s time for them to go home and enjoy what’s there for them. So, I’ve had to take them, in spirit actually take them, and show them the place. And they look, cock their heads, and “Wow!”

And I say: “It’s ok. Go!” And they just run and leap into this, and just become one with this mass of joy. I’ve gone up, occasionally, just to look. And this is the only Heaven that I, literally, go up to on my own. The rest of the time, I’m taken into the Heaven for us. By the way, there are animals in that Heaven for us, too. And what happens is, these animals from Dog Heaven, for instance, they’re called by their former masters and they’ll just transfer to there, and be with them. But they are not “locked” into the human Heaven. They can go back and forth. If they get tired of being around: “Sorry, pop, I gotta go. I’ll be back later.” And bang, off they go. This Heaven is a kick!

Like I’ve said, I’ve been up there, and suddenly one of the animals, over my lifetime, in this mass of confusion, chasing each other, biting each other on the butt, just having dog-fun, not hurting anything, just having fun - then, they’ll all of a sudden recognize that I’m out there, watching, because I’m not allowed to go INTO this.

And suddenly, word seems to go out: “Hey, Red Elk is out there!” And then just out of this massive cloud would bound a little whiff or cloud, and turn into one of my former animals, and just run up, and sit down, and look up at my face, and the tongue would be out, saying: “I’m having fun. Nice to see you. Bye!” And that’s that. It’s a wonderful place. But they have no souls. And I hear Penelope Smith and others say this, that animals have souls. No, they don’t. They have an awareness and need no souls; they do no wrong.

Rick Martin: Makes sense. That’s all I had. I just had to ask you that one question about the cities of Light, and I know people will be asking me.

Red Elk: I can honestly say, if there are such places, I don’t know of them, here within this Earth. Oh, oh, oh! I take that back. Thank you, Creator. Aho! There is at least one. And that is the one known as Shangri-La.

Rick Martin: And is that under Tibet?

Red Elk: No, it’s under the Russian Steppes.

Rick Martin: Where is that?

Red Elk: That is the great wilderness of Russia, the great wilderness, Siberia area. There is a way into it through Tibet. There is a way into it in the Russian Steppes.

Rick Martin: That’s pretty remote.

Red Elk: It’s not only remote; it’s unseeable - unless you go in the right heart, and that unlocks the key; and then suddenly, it is there. If you have that right heart, pure seeking, you’ll be led there; if that’s truly where you want to go. There are great Masters there. There are a great many, many of the Essenes still there. The Essenes have never gone out of existence, ever.

And the great Earth Learners. These are people who are alive. They’re not spirit beings. They are alive people, alive, who are actually very long-lived, if you want, near, if not totally, immortal. They are great Masters, great Lovers. And I’m not speaking sexual love; I’m speaking love of all mankind, all things. And it’s kind-of a parking place for those kinds of people who have walked out to search.

Literally, if you and I were side-by-side, and you had the right heart and I the wrong, you could get up to go to the bathroom or something, and we’re camped out there searching for something tangible that we can see, but your heart is right, and we happen to be right there where it’s at, but we can’t see it because it’s in another kind-of dimension, you could go off to the bathroom, and I could watch you go hide behind a bush, and you simply would walk into air and I could not find you. You make it to Shangri-La; I do not.

And it is a strange world. And the key that you need to get into the city is similar to the key needed to get into the Inner Earth, and to the other cities that I know - and that is a pure heart. You go in the proper area, the proper place, but if you are going with a pure heart - not to conquer, not to explore, but you’ve heard, and you hunger to be a part of it, and you love the Creator, and you love everything - and you’re not going to hide from a police record or something. Anyway, with that pure heart, if you get within the general area, you are checked out. It is a city that is within the Earth, and yet is inter-dimensional.

Rick Martin: Now, would this be the city where reside the great Masters who are, forever, on this planet, such as Baba Ji?

Red Elk: Yes, it would be. But, is it? I don’t know. Only the people who have set their heart on nothing but goodness and kindness and compassion and love and helping - not all of these people, you understand - but in their searching, they hear of Shangri-La.

I’m looking at it, right now. I’m split. I’m what we call split. And, frankly, the city looks quite a bit like the one in/on this planet I told you about - a crystal, dome-like, inter-dimensional though, city. It’s there, within the Earth, not on the surface of the Earth. And if you and I happen to be in the Earth, at that area of the city, but not of pure heart, we would not know it exists. To us, we’d be walking through the air of a cave, or whatnot. It’s an inner heart way. The key to it is through the heart. You’ve got to be of pure heart.

And that holds true with the other Keepers. That’s one of my jobs, called Keeper of the Tunnels, which means or infers, Inner Earth.

I have a city that I am particularly keeper of, the entry way. The first group of Long Walkers are headed for that city, and there are a number of openings to this city. And some of them are actual, physical openings, that you can actually physically enter into - a crack, or cave, or whatnot, and start your walk. And this is what they’ve done. But I have the inner key, the pure heart; therefore, I have the key to the opening that is scant miles from the city. When the time comes, my orders are already known. When the time comes, the Creator will send certain ones to me, at a certain place, and these are the ones from other breeds - other than Indian-American - Black people, it doesn’t matter. He knows who they are. They will be called. They will be so compelled, they can’t stop themselves. They will do everything they can to get there.

They will meet with me, and then I will open the door, and they will go down. I will then shut the door, and that’s it. My job is done for the inner city work. I’ll stay here. I have to face the music that’s up here. I cannot - I do not know how to open the door, go down with them, and then come back up and open the door, and come back to the surface. I have no knowledge of how to do that. All I do, basically, I’m just the doorman.

Rick Martin: And when you open that door, I presume it’s so that they go down into safety?

Red Elk: Yes, and the survivors here on the surface, over time, will interbreed, and there will be ONE COLOR, ONE LANGUAGE. The same thing will happen down there.

Now, the American Indians, Long Walkers, and those of that ilk, they believe that they came from down there, which is very true. Not all of them, you understand, but many of these people were the survivors who were saved by the gods, little g, in reality, here, and from up on our surface, when they warred against the Draconian Lizards and saved the group. They believe that they are the only ones, that they are the only people who came out of the Inner Earth. (Laughter) Boy, are they wrong! There were Africans, and all kinds of people, all around the Earth. They’re not the only ones. They are a little cocky, and they’ve got this in their head. I don’t know why.

But nevertheless, they believe that they are going to be masters, if you want, of the city they’re going to. And there are a number of cities, a number of Long Walkers, who are going to be going toward these cities, American Indians - at least 3, at the very least - are going to be going to cities that are deep within our underground.

Rick Martin: You’re talking about 3 individuals?

Red Elk: Three cities, at least. When they get there, they’re going to believe that this is for them. Wow! Alleluia and all of that. They’ll think: “The Great Spirit has given us a whole city. We know how to live here. Our ancestors had known how to make knives, etc., and we’ve learned those skills” and blah, blah, blah.

Well, at least in the one city that I take care of, that I am in charge of, they’re going to find, when they get there, there’s others who are waiting for them from our surface, of very many different colors. The same type of colors that are here, same race, breeds, if you want, that are up here on our planet’s surface will be going down there. And in my case, they will be there before the Long Walkers get to it.

Now, in the other cities, I don’t know. But nevertheless, they will get there, if they’re not there first. You understand?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: And the Long Walkers are going to be very, very surprised. As it stands now, in the first group of Long Walkers, at least five are dead. I just checked recently, and it still looks like only five are dead.

Rick Martin: Five are dead?

Red Elk: Yes, yes. One died of appendicitis. One, I don’t know. And three, foolishly, did not pay heed to myself or the Guides that the Inner Queen had given them, and went off exploring on their own. And there’s traps all through these dang tunnels.

And during a big rest-stop, these three saw a huge, at least 3-foot-wide, pure silver vein; and they wanted to explore that. They walked off, and it was a trap-vein, and a cave-in killed the 3 of them. Which is good - what is death? They’re ok; they’ve gone on. And it was good that this went on, too, because it really chastised the others to PAY ATTENTION to what I have told their leader, and them, and what the Guides tell them. And it was needed - really, in a sense, designed, that this happened to these three - to warn, and show the others that this is not a game. It might be a long, long walk, but it is not a game; you pay attention. And believe me, they are now!

But, in this group there is an older lady who is, well, she has a big ego problem, and she thinks that SHE should be the leader. And the leadership is given to a younger man, when the original leader abandoned them, and came out of the tunnel, just scared to death. He made big hoopla about, he knew this, he knew that about the Innerland. He didn’t know diddly-squat, nothin’ - and he, literally, abandoned them.

He came out and said: “They are sick. They need this. They need that.” And told our Indian people, the Elders, and stuff. And they backed him up with all kinds of stuff - I mean, the guy was loaded-down. And he went back into the Inner Earth, to one of the first small caves, and sat there for several days eating the foods and things that he was, supposedly, bringing back to them.

And he came out and told them: “Well, I got back to them, but they left. I told them to stay there, and I can’t find them in this maze. They’re gone.” So, the first group is considered to be dead now.

So, they made up a second group to go, and this man was going to lead them in. And I thought “Oh, no” when I heard about this.

You know, the guy has got these Elders hoodwinked. He just - oh, I just don’t stand this kind of medicine people ego - but a real hero to the people when he came out. You know, a real hero. He made his way out, and he’s going back in to “save” the group. Save the group my butt! He was scared to death in there.

Anyway, they were going to send him in with a second group. When I heard about it, I had to search him out and put a sickness on him, that put him into the hospital. I’m not allowed to kill or anything; it’s abhorrent to me. But, in this case, I had to put a sickness on this younger man. Young, well, he’s probably in his early 40s now.

The Elders couldn’t understand it, because this guy was going to lead the second group in, and the group was ready, then suddenly he’s very sick. And the doctors are scrambling all over to find out what’s going on - the White doctors. Ta-da! The light went on in the head of 2 or 3 of the Elders, and they said: “Wait a minute. This is no ordinary sickness. This is something put on by a sorcerer, or something along that line.”

I’m not a sorcerer, but I know the abilities. So they went searching and they did a time-trip on the Long Walkers, the first group, and found out the truth of this man. I think there’s five of them who did this, and they were just astonished that this man was a Judas. He was NOT what he was making himself out to be.

So they understood the sickness, and chose another to lead the second group in, which is well on its way now.

And this one here, somehow - I don’t know how - word has kind-of filtered out of the great Elders pow-wow, he’s kind-of like a dog with his tail between his legs, down there in Indian land. He’s lost all status, all status. He’s out of the hospital, but he’s locked out of ever doing this again. And he will never enter in. He’s not a true-heart. He will never enter in.

Meanwhile, the lady thinks she should be leader. So, what is going to happen - I see the future of it, I’ve been shown the future of it. They will get emerge from the entrance into the great cave, where this huge, huge, huge area of beautiful land is - water, with fish, animals, and by the way, these animals are not like our animals. These are Mastodons and stuff.

Anyway, they see the city in the distance - not huge distance, you know, 20-30 miles away - and making their way to it. All of a sudden as they get close, they see that there are people there who are not Indians, who are Black people, White people, all different colors. And they’re “shocked”, just literally shocked. And the Indian woman then will cause an uprising within the group, and there will be a split.

And if this woman has her way - and I don’t know beyond this future - she has either got to somehow be convinced into staying with the group, or coming back to the half-group they’re split from, now, and live in peace. In short, take it as the way it is. Just roll with the punches. We weren’t expecting it either, but come on back. And she doesn’t want to. I know this.

Or, she will take her son, and some of her other followers, splitting-off, and they will cause the first wars in the Innerland.

Or, she must be killed, or die in a natural form, to stop the wars she will be making because of her hatred of the races that she sees, and her hatred of the Elder who is much wiser than her, who actually has the authority and is leading the group. It’s just hate; she’s jealous and full of hate.

Rick Martin: Really unfortunate.

Red Elk: Yes, very unfortunate, very unfortunate, indeed. And I know that peace will try to be made, but I do not know if it will succeed. And the only hope is that she dies, and her son dies. He’s not anywhere near as bad as her, but she’s got the son convinced she’s the leader. It’s very, very sad.

Luckily not everybody goes with her. Actually, just a little less than half of those who actually make it out of the hole - some 16. But therein enters war. While the others will, all over our world, will meet with others from our upperland, and they, too, will interbreed.

The same color that is on our surface, will be on their surface; the same language on our surface will be on their surface. All nations will disappear.

It is the Red man, the Red man’s nation - the knowledge that we give out. My job is to teach the abilities that all human beings have; the knowledge is what will be left of the Red man’s race. That inner touch, how to make fruit out of a piece of dead branch, that happens to be an apple branch. I teach how to do this. I give them the knowledge. I do not do it for them. I’ve taken my lessons. I know what I can do; I’ve seen it work. I’ve tested it. I know how simple the lesson is, and therefore lies the biggest problem on how hard it is to do it. It’s so damn simple that nobody can believe it. Excuse my language, but you understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Sure I do.

Red Elk: Our world is full of the idea that it’s got to be complicated; we’ve got to have scientists do it; we’ve got to have a great inventor do it; it’s got to have millions of dollars behind it - ah, bull crap. It’s just got to have your heart and your mind, and that’s that!

So, anyway, that’s where that stands.

And, before we go, my brother, there is something that I wish I had told in this interview.

Aho! Thank you, Creator. Aho!

Boy, I just love Dad. He has a pretty good head.

Rick Martin: He’ll remind you.

Red Elk: He says, like the Crystal City inside, and this, what I’m going to say, wasn’t just a reminder. It was like a toilet plunger just pressing down. It’s a very permanent reminder.

And that is the fact that I speak, in the interview, quite a bit about what people would call Christian things.

Well, the Inner Heyoka learned at the feet of the Son of God. That’s where our original society originated. Christ himself. You call him Christ. We call him Pale One, or Pale Teacher.

So, I am one of only twelve who carry on the traditional way of purity. I understand our Indian nation’s main ceremonies. Not all ceremonies are based on this, but our main ones, like Sun Dance - where it comes from, how it connects with Christ, how it connects with the Bible. I’m the bridge. I’m not supposed to understand these things.

And, if you’d like to put why I talk so much about the Bible, being on the Indian side, I’d gladly explain one of the great bridgings, one of the great misunderstandings between Indians and Whites, both.

Rick Martin: Tape is rolling.

Red Elk: The Sun Dance consists of a very large circle scratched into the Earth. And in the center is a hole, to receive the center pole, the tree. And what happens is, when it comes time for Sun Dance, the Elders will get together and pray, and send out scouts - young bucks, if you would.

I don’t think that we like that word, but the White man will understand it.

Nevertheless, send them to look for the proper tree to fill this hole. And these people will go out and search the countryside, sometimes for many, many miles, 2 or 3 days. They will come back and report: “I found this tree, I found that tree.”

They are busted up into small groups and go out in 2s, 3s, 1s, and report back. And then the Elders will take these reports and go and check on these trees, the Elders themselves, to see which tree is the right tree. When the right tree is found, then they send for a whole crew of guys - good, strong guys, young men, and a virgin, a young woman; she’ll be dressed in white. And they do their prayers, and give thanks for the sacrifice of cutting the tree, and everything that’s involved, which is a lot more than is normal for us when we take the life of a tree or plant. Even more so with this, because this is a very special tree.

The tree is not short. It’s not some little 15-foot tree; it’s up there in height. And they will give the young virgin an axe, and in ceremony, with this axe, she will run up and strike the tree; if I remember right, 3 times, but it varies.

Now, this young virgin, dressed in white, represents Mary, the mother of Christ. She hits the tree because it is the enemy upon which her child was killed. They cut the tree down, then. The young men have to line-up so, when the tree comes down, they have to catch it. They can’t let it drop on the ground. This is a big, green tree, with leaves and everything.

Then they catch it and de-limb it. They have to carry it all the way back to the circle, no matter if it is days or nights. They cannot let it touch the ground. So they shift, they have people who shift, depending on how far away that it is. They represent those who helped carry the cross of Christ.

The tree enters the circle. The circle represents the circle of all Creation, all life - every planet, every people of those planets, our own planet, our own mitakuye oyasin, one relation. And when we say we are one relation, we are not inferring only human-to-human, we are related to the worm that helps to aerate the earth by eating our bodies that are buried in the earth. And, therefore, the water gets into those little holes and helps feed the grass roots and stuff, and the animals come and eat it; and we eat the animals, or we eat the plants. And, literally, we are ingesting our dead sometimes. You know? In a sense, we’re the top of the food chain, and the bottom. Both! But anyway, we mean everything when we say mitakuye oyasin; we’re talking everything - the rain, the mountains, the stars, the dirt, everything; not just people.

So, anyway, this great circle represents all of this. And it’s in a circle because everything runs in a circle. The hole is in the dead center of this circle. Well, they bring the tree into this hole, and on top of the tree is a live branch, with the leaves on it. That’s the only one that’s not taken away from the tree. And then they put the tree in, and with great ceremony they plant the tree.

The tree represents the cross of Christ. The green branch on top represents life, up there. It is connected into the Earth, from our Mother, our Mother Earth, to the Heavens itself, is the connection. And the connection is the Christ.

Well, they don’t have a cross-piece on it, but they tie lines to it - those who are going to dance. These dancers prepare through fasting and a lot of prayer, because it’s a pretty painful dance.

Certain people, by each dancer, are pierced, and bone, or sticks, or whatnot are shoved through these pulled pieces of skin; and one of these lines are looped around these sticks in such a manner that it catches both sides of the stick. This represents the piercing of Christ.

Then the dance begins. And they start dancing around, asking the Creator for forgiveness for themselves, or whatever, but asking the Creator to be with ALL. Some dance, not for themselves, but for others who can’t dance. It’s a beautiful time, but it’s rough. And they’re leaning back on these sticks, on these long, long lines. Meanwhile, everybody is praying and pow-wowing, and kind-of partying, and rooting for the people there, dancing on.

In the old days, they used to dance day and night. But today, they take them down during the day - they take the skewers off, on some of these. They don’t do it anymore like in the old days. And now they let them rest during the night. In the old days, they were at it day and night. If they had to sleep, they’d just fall asleep right there on the ground, and someone would come and cover them.

Anyway, they pulled themselves loose from these skewers, or these lines on the skewers. And if they can’t, by jerking back, literally rip those two holes from side-to-side, then others will come in and pull them back. It’s real easy to pull the skewers out and just release them. But that’s not the way of it. Their sacrifice for the prayer, for the people, for all Creation, is so great, it is very, very painful. Each one are representing the Christ.

So they are ripped-off the cross. And others might have to help them. And I tell you - you go into great pain on this thing. And then they are taken for healing time. In this healing time, it generally lasts for three days. Christ was buried for three days. And then they come out, doctored and cared for, and are considered very special people, very holy people. And our people will touch them, and honor them with gifts, and thanksgiving, and ask for special prayer.

The whole thing is the ceremony, because of what the Bible talks about; because we had no words to write down. So we did it in ceremony, to remember what we can now read in the Bible.

This is what American Indian ceremonies - a vast majority, well, all ceremonies - are, literally: words in plays, in acts, like watching Shakespeare. But, over the centuries, even our Indians have forgotten what some of our ceremonies’ origins or roots were. They have the most beautiful meanings, but well off the mark.

As for the Inner Heyokas, there were 13. In time - I’m not sure if I said this earlier - Christ had left 13 of what you would call apostles, over there in the Jerusalem area.

Over time, all the Indians learned a lot, my ancestors of the society learned a tremendous amount. And they would come to us for healing. And, at first, they would honor us with gifts, food-stuffs, and things that are needed for life, just to exist. But, in time, they just expected it from us. And it got to the point, they’d rattle the new claws on the teepee, on the lodge, in the middle of the night: “Hey, I need your prayers. Come on out.” And we started to go from something of being respected greatly, to dang near a slave. And that, to this day, is still the case.

Our families - we’re spending more time healing than going out and getting a hunk of meat to feed our kids and wives. And this got one of the 13 ticked-off. So, the next time somebody wanted him, when someone came to him and said: “Look, basically, we need you over at this Nation, a couple-day trip.”

He said: “Yeah, you tell them I’m going to come, but I’m not coming at this minute.” He had gotten a great idea. He grabbed drums, and rattles, and he had already planned this. He had made a mask, and everything else. Well, he packed-up and went.

He went into the village, and these people are expecting kind-of Paul the apostle to walk into this thing, “Thanks, guys” and walk home again.

He came in and he, literally, began chanting and drumming and singing and rattling and doing a whole hoopla of things; it became a vaudeville act. And then he did the prayer that he was going to normally do, anyway. Well, this was so awe-inspiring to the people there, they paid him - my gosh, not only a healing, but entertainment, to boot.

This is where tradition started. Tradition started out of purity and need - not trust, though. 1 of the 13, the original 13, started tradition. He became a damned clown. But, in time, it grew with more respect.

Well, people were bringing the clown in: Here, let’s have a song and dance and healing too, and we’ll give you good stuff for it. And it caught-on with others who are lesser medicine people, who are not of the inner 13. And this is where tradition started.

Well, it left us with only 12 who remained in purity, who remained in the ability to do tradition. We knew the songs and dances, too, over time. We learned it, but that didn’t mean we did it; we learned it, we knew what it was all about. But we prefer to not use it. We prefer to go up and pray.

Well, today’s White world has ruined even the prayer of purity. They went in and said: “Sure, I’ll pray for you” - meaning well, but not asking the Creator if they should do so; or, if so, how to do it. What does He want done? They don’t do that.

But Christ said: I ask and then do. What Dad tells me to say, I say. What He tells me to do, I do. If not, I don’t do it.

The Christians don’t follow Christ. They claim to, but they are liars, unintentionally, but they are liars. So, today, when people come to me for prayer, I go to the Creator, every single time. And I say: “Sir, what do YOU want? Am I to do this for this person? Or, am I to be a part of it?”

And then I listen. It’s that simple. You ask and then you listen. Just shut-up and listen, and expect an answer. And He gives you an answer. And if it’s “Yes”, then I ask Him: “What do you want me to do about it? How? How do you want me to go about it, sir?”

And He tells you. And in many cases He says: “They came to you as Indians, asking for it in the Indian way, i.e., the way of tradition. So, give it to them in that way.” And then He explains exactly how He wants me to go about it. And I do so. And the people are happy, because that same kind of traditional method cured grandma and great auntie and on and on.

It really wasn’t that, because that’s all a vaudeville act; but they believe it. It was the prayer that did the work, and the prayer didn’t even heal anybody, it was the fact that the prayer was given by the Creator, and He healed. We don’t heal a thing.

There’s where tradition became, and also, it’s where it’s going to go back to - purity. Already, some of the medicine people are approaching me, saying: “Red Elk, we know this is dying. We know that the future holds no more plants for us to use, no more of this or that. How are we going to survive? How are we going to remain being medicine men without all of this stuff ?”

And I laugh, and I say: “You’ve never needed it in the first place!” And I explain. And it’s hard on them, but they see the truth of it. They’re going to have to go through something new to them - purity.

So, anyway, it is no trouble for me to swing back and forth between Indian and the so-called White man’s religion. And it’s no trouble for me to go into Muslim and Buddhist.

The Creator looks at a person’s heart. I have, now, people who are Buddhist, and people who are Muslims, and Wiccan, and atheists, who are Christ-followers. That’s what the word Christian means; they use the power of what Christ gave the people: love. That was his sacrifice, his teaching, and his love. Therefore, anyone who loves, not hoping to get something back, but just plain compassion, they, at that time, are a Christ-follower, whether they know it or want anything to do with it, or not. CHRIST IS LOVE. CHRIST WAS GOD. GOD IS LOVE. Even the Bible says: “God is the spirit of love” as well as many other names.

Right now I have a Buddhist - an active one who loves the religion Buddhist/Christian; and I have two Muslims who love their way, Muslim/Christian. God doesn’t care how you go to Him; He cares about your heart.

Rick Martin: Intent.

Red Elk: I have people who are atheists, who to this day will not admit that there is a God, but they follow Christ, because they do so out of just pure heart-love purity. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: Yes, I do.

Red Elk: I wish people would leave everybody’s way of going to God alone. And, knowing what God is, purity love, knowing what Christ was, Him, in purity love on two legs, and knowing what that purity love does to you, it gives you compassion and the willingness to love without any recompense on your part, with much sacrifice, often.

Never mind if they get on a piece of cloth and bow to the East. Allah is the name of God in that region, for Heaven’s sake! It’s this in-fighting of religion that’s terrible, but even worse is, in those religions you have, like Taliban, and your other Muslim types, it’s in-fighting; it’s denominationalism within the Muslim faith, a splitting-away and causing in-fighting. And it’s nothing more than what we have here that we call denominations. Let us unite as mitakuye oyasin - one people, in love. And never mind how we go about it, go about touching God’s ear.

So be it. I felt very strongly, I came on more like a preacher than an Indian, and they wouldn’t know where I came from.

Rick Martin: It’s always good to clarify.

Red Elk: I’m doing CDs and tapes, professional, on how to do certain things. The first three are professionally taped: How to teleport; How to do telepathy, on demand; and How to fly, or levitate - both 101 and advanced. All people have to do is to test it, to find out if it works.

You do me a favor. You pray about it [whether to include the following information]. I’m not in this for the money. Thank God I’m starting to make some money. But I’m not in it for the money. It’s almost a sin for me to make money, and it’s awful hard on me, because the Bible says: “Feed your hawks.” And this big, old, dumb ox, I’ve been working for years for nothing.

Nevertheless, I have other ones coming up. Next month I’ll spend a whole day taping a bunch of other ones.

Then, the one I have now is called The Agendas, as you know (a 24-page booklet, $33) that gives nothing but knowledge. And knowledge that nobody else is presenting, and really knowledge that’s so deep that, who’s going to believe it? The only way that you’re going to find out is to wait, and that way you won’t be so shocked as it happens.

I don’t set the price on these things. The Creator sets the price, and I’m ashamed at the price; I’m so shamed. But he told me: “No! I mean, literally, No!” He said: “I want only those who are truly interested in learning to receive these.” And that means that if people can’t afford the price themselves ($33 for a 24-26 page booklet), they can always find 2 or 3 others who would like to share the cost.

Again, you pray about it, and if you put it in, you tell them you prayed about it. I’m going to leave it in Creator’s hands and out of mine.

Rick Martin: This is a good place to end. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our readers.

Red Elk: Aho!

Go Back

On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, we received a telephone call at The SPECTRUM from renowned Native American leader Red Elk, who felt compelled to share the following message with all of our readers.

Many of you will remember Red Elk as Rick Martin’s featured front-page interviewee for our April 2002 issue. That provocative article was titled Red Elk’s Medicine Message Of Worlds Within Worlds: Old Mysteries, Powerful Truths For Today. Red Elk teaches and lectures extensively and has several times spoken to the vast listening audience of Art Bell’s late-night talk-radio program about both spiritual matters and the many layers of activity going on right under our feet.

Rick Martin answered Red Elk’s call and, once the intent was understood, quickly grabbed his tape recorder so that we could share the following information and dialog with you.

Is it timely? That’s a matter of personal value within the Larger Play that’s rapidly picking up speed. It seems that teachers from all directions are being urged to step forth and do their part to help guide those who are awakening to an awareness of the Cleansing Spirit moving ever more surely over planet Earth.

As Red Elk says, conditions shall be such as to encourage all of like mind to work together toward the renewal of Mother Earth - for all our relations.

RED ELK on 22nd January 2003 (Website:

Red Elk: What I’d like to say, if at all possible, is to the people:

The line IS drawn. Capitalize IS. There will be no more fence-straddling. You’re either going to be for Good, or for self.

Basically, we’ve only got about 2½ years before war comes to our shores, and WE lose. But it won’t be a total loss.

The Great Hand of the Creator will slap-down on the foreign armies that occupy the USA. It will slap-down three times, and every foreign personnel who are connected with taking us over will flee. But, nevertheless, war is due.

There will be a M7.2 earthquake on the West Coast. Somewhere rolling in from the Portland, Oregon area. Now, I do not know if that’s Portland included, but from that particular area, up toward Washington. Date or year unknown, but it will be early on a beautiful Spring morning.

Mount St. Helens will blow again, going through the lava tubes, wiping-out Cougar, Washington - going towards Portland. I don’t know if the winds catch it before or after, and then blow it along the coast, and inland again, East, as before. Time and date and year unknown - but it will be. It will be as before, on a beautiful Spring morning, between 6:00 and 10:30 a.m. More towards Summer, I think, because it’s a very beautiful day.

Mt. Rainer will blow approximately just under 1/4 of its top, like an arrow shooting up. And then it will turn around and come down and fill the gap that it had left, creating air pressure far into the inlands of Eastern Washington, Kittitas County. There will be holes from a few mere inches to 60 feet or so across, that are blown out with just air pressure, nothing to do with lava. This will happen sometime approaching or during elk season, which is Fall time. Again, the time and year unknown.

But we’re in for one heck of a ride. This should take place before the war.

Planet X will not flip the Earth. It’s only one of three events. It will be a contributing factor only. It is there. We’ve known it in Native medicine knowledge for many, many, many - well, foretold for centuries. When will it come? I don’t know if it’s on the date everybody is talking about; I have no idea. All I know is that it will be coming. And it will cause great disturbances on the Earth. But it will not cause the Earth to flip, though it will be a contributing factor.

When will the Earth flip? I don’t know. It will flip within 23 years, anytime within 23 years, and AFTER the events just described.


And it’s going to be Bad versus Good, Good versus Bad, Unconditional Love versus Self Gratification.
The Christian churches will break up. There will be the true-hearts who will leave, leaving the modern-day Christian way, in the church buildings. The true-hearts will start meeting in homes, again. They will stay in the traditional Christian churches until they can’t stand it anymore. But they will be a Light within the Church for a short time, and then they will pull out.

Again: the line is drawn! There’s no more fence-straddling, at all. You make up your mind now which way you’re going to go: Good or Bad.

You still LOVE the Bad. They can call you enemy; but you don’t call them enemy.

The year 2012 is NOT the end of civilization as we know it; that I can see. But it is the Year of Confusion.

So many probables. Mankind can go in so many different, strong ways that the Mayan, the Aztec, etc., just did not see which way they were going to go. They were all such strong possibilities to go. So, they more or less threw their hands up and said: “We don’t know.”

Thank you, my brother, that’s the best I can do.

Martin: I have one question for you.

Red Elk: No, I’m not pregnant. [Laughter]

Martin: [Laughter] Our upcoming March feature concerns the year
2003, primarily.

Red Elk: Yeah, there is something that is going to be done in 2003. I don’t know what.

Martin: There is a lot that people are seeing, a lot of apprehension for the first half of 2003. Some people are apprehensive because of Planet X, some people are apprehensive because of the possible war in Iraq, and yet there are other factors coming into play, not the least of which is time manipulation.
Do you have a sense of what people’s apprehension is about 2003?

Red Elk: Most of the apprehension is caused by the Earth, inner great shifting. We are of Earth. We are made of dirt, and stuff, originally. So we are, therefore, very much in tune with the Earth, regardless if you are aware of it or not. The grading, and all of the movement of our Earth, she’s getting ready to roll. It’s causing a sympathetic vibration in the human body.

Also, people are going into parallel times and places, actually doing it - and shocked: “What was that all about?” Because it only lasts a moment, to several minutes. Are they going crazy? No, it’s just they are not aware of what is happening.

[Editor’s note: This last comment is very similar to what Al Bielek and Preston Nichols say in Rick’s front-page feature story.]

Martin: There’s a lot of that.

Red Elk: Yes, there is a tremendous amount, and it is growing, and growing, and growing.

So some of the apprehension is due to our Mother Earth. And the fact that our people came from her belly - in that sense, we ARE connected. But most people are not aware of the total connection.

But another thing: How do I say it? There is also occurring manipulation through “other forces” - those who in turn are manipulated by Luciferian angels and he himself, who are trying to manipulate the humans to be afraid.

Martin: True.

Red Elk: You’re supposed to run to the government; they will “protect” you. You’re damn right they will! They’re part of the other ones, the Bad ones!

You are being controlled simply by fear - they’re trying to, anyway. Big word: fear! FEAR!

And those who learn to overcome that fear, and walk in the Light of Love and Unity with The Creator - shoot - this will be a piece of cake.

It will be like walking through a cloud instead of hitting a mountain. It will only cause you to waiver a bit; then off you go, right through that mountain! It’s nothing more than energy in the first place, just as you are energy. You become an unstoppable force, going right through an immovable object!

It’s all mind, God-mind stuff. It is, literally, thought energy. You match energy and pass through. And we can do that - but it takes a heart relationship with Daddy to do it. It really does; I’m not kidding anybody. It really does!

Put that down, however you want, brother, if you will.

Martin: I’ll be glad to.

Red Elk: The line is drawn! There’s no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Our skies haven’t turned red, yet. I think that Planet X is going to help along in that way.

I’m not sure if it’s going to be a nuclear explosion that causes this. Although, the wavering of our Earth, and this Planet X coming by so close and causing what it does - makes the Earth shake and rattle and roll even more.

And since everybody is on edge anyway, somebody might, might hit the wrong button and we will have a nuclear war. And I’m talking PRIOR to Armageddon.

So, the skies will turn red, day and night, for a number of days in a row. What actually causes it? I’m not sure. It hasn’t happened yet. We can still change everything if enough people of the planet got right with The Creator; we could stop everything.

Planet Earth can go out into space like a slingshot. Mamma would calm down and say: “Ah, the fleas are resting.” And not shake us off. Otherwise, we’re on our own.

And I tell you true: the line IS drawn! It’s not a matter of going to be, or a little line here, a little line there, like it has been - people here, people there, praying for Mother Earth, not knowing that there’s five more, six blocks down the road, doing the same thing. They’re not yet connected, a bunch of little lines.

But now, they are going to connect as One! Those who are for Good will connect as One, in some super-huge kind of meeting.

And they’ve got to learn that, when they connect, they cannot - I repeat, with big CANNOT - say: “We’re all here for helping Earth and mankind, and this is the way you must do it.”

They’ve got to realize - I’m talking medicine people, spiritual people, I’m talking wiccan people - I don’t care, as long as they are for Mamma Earth, and for unity of Love, I don’t care how they go to The Creator.

But, I’m telling you this: There is a great problem in the world today, amongst the so-called “spiritual” people. They have a problem with: “MY way is right; so we’ll do it this way.”

They are not living Mitakuye Oyasin [for all my relations]. They just talk the word.

The world is a body, in a sense. We are the doctors, in a sense. All doctors, to be regular doctors, all go to the same kind of basic training to know the body before they branch off to be a brain surgeon, a heart surgeon, a foot doctor. But they all have to take the same basic training before they branch-off.

They are forgetting that we all have the same basic training; we’re all working with the same body. And sure, some know how to do brain surgery; some know how to do foot work. But that does not cure the body; it only cures that part.

They must realize it takes all, working together, on the whole body! The brain surgeon, the heart surgeon, the guy who heals broken bones, the guy who takes care of intestinal disorders - without all of them truly working together, no ONE is right.

They must unify! Then the body has a great chance of being healed; otherwise, it’s just partially crippled. Right now the body is spastic. We must work together to make the body whole. Work TOGETHER, not against each other. None of this “mine is right, yours is wrong” attitude.

And until they can do that, these who call others together to meet for praying for Mother Earth, and all that, but they still stay in their specialty and fight each other - how can they be so stubborn and yet claim to heal all?! They must accept every bit of each other’s little individual - or great - amount of work on the body.

The nurse who gives the aspirin, she is very much needed. And so is the brain surgeon. No one is more important than the other. We must unite!

Now, people world-wide are getting awfully antsy, scattered, frightened. As I said, it’s designed to be that way, so they can be controlled.

They must be FREE, SELF-THINKERS, and TOTALLY FEARLESS. And they can’t do that without the total spiritual contact with our Creator. And that Creator is 100% real! They’ve got to reach that point of KNOWING!

Make that Creator - however you call The Creator: He, She, Cosmos, Allah, God, whatever - make that one Daddy. Make Him REAL in your heart! Humanize Him to the point where you can run and jump on His lap, and hug Him. But do it with great respect; that’s what He wants. You are His thought! You are His child! You wouldn’t exist if He didn’t want you in the first place!

So make Him an approachable Daddy. Don’t keep Him at such a distance, pushed away with some kind of artificial reverence. Talk to Him in a respectful manner. But then, regard Him as you would your father, human father, who you love dearly. You want to go to Dad and give Him a hug.

Or, you want to be able to say:

“Dad, I don’t understand this or that; help me.”

And if you’re in the wrong and don’t admit it, you’re going to get your butt spanked. He’s Dad! He wants you to grow up right!

You might as well get up on His lap and apologize, and love Him, instead of standing out there in the doorway. Get in there and hug the Guy, this Great Being. He exists!

Well, I’ve said my piece. A lot more than I intended to say. Take it down as you choose.

 Filed under: Aliens / ETs & UFOs

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