Satan and Lucifer -- Are they the same person?

I've always found the topic of Satan and Lucifer interesting. Since my earlier years of studying the Bible I always thought the topic of Satan was grossly misunderstood. And then after reading writings from people like H. P. Blavatsky and Manly P. Hall it gave me a different way of looking at it that made sense.

I'm going to collect my thoughts and respond later with my thoughts on this topic, but I'd be curious to get your take on Satan and Lucifer. What do they mean to you? Are they the same? How are they different? Are they people? What are they and what do they mean? Are they evil? Are they good? These are important questions to discuss that I think too many Christians shy away from.

 Filed under: Biblical, Lucifer, Satan

72 Comments

killaj22: I agree there are many universes

The structure of the grand Universe according to Urantia Book, is as follows:

1. An inhabited world - like Urantia ( Earth )
2. A System - Up to 1,000 inhabited worlds - our system name is Satania
3. A constellation - Up to 100 Systems - our Constellation is Norlatiadek
4. A Local Universe - Up to 100 Contellations - our local universe is Nebadon
5. A Minor Sector - Up to 100 Local Universes- Our minor sector is called Ensa
6. A Major Sector - Up to 100 Minor Sectors - Our major sector is called Splandon
7. Super Universe- Up to 10 Major Sectors - Our super universe is called Orvonton
8. Grand Universe- 7 Super Universes + the perfect central Universe called Havona

There are allegedly 1 trillion inhabited worlds per Super Universe. 7 trillion in all 7, not including Havona, or the architectural spheres in each tier.

Central Universe was created perfect, or has attained perfection. I think it states it was created perfect, and the 7 Super Universes are evolving toward Perfection, with Havona being the original blueprint or example to strive towards.

Each local Universe is ruled by a Creator son. Ours is by the name of Michael of Nebadon. Michael of Nebadon completed his 7th bestowal mission as Jesus and when he came to Urantia ( Earth ). Not all planets are as lucky as we are, for Michael chose our planet, in his local universe, to come to.

I'm still studying this material, so I may be slightly off in my presentation of details, but you get the point.

BenjaminFalkenrath: Indeed. An the point is,

Indeed. An the point is, there are so much that our earth takes for granted. So then you know by an how with his mission he is then considered sovereign. Not sure it would but. It should also indicate his using our sun as a resting point in-between these missions an is a preferred place of his to dwell while conducting business here. Which is where it says I am the light of the world. Not just in that but also his celestial body which is of light.
What gets me is how damn misconstrued his coming here an reasoning behind has become. He didn't come to be worshipped, bowed before and ass kissed. He came to remind us of who we are. That we're created in Love. And though we're in a fallen world within a low vibration that we still can move higher an learn how to love and live again.

killaj22: I'm still reading the Life of Jesus section in Urantia book

From what I've read , Michael of Nebadon bestowed himself in the flesh on Urantia. He did this because of our Planetary Prince betraying us and because Adam and Eve defaulted. He came to uplift humanity spiritually and to get man away from worshiping by sacrifice ( animal or human). Also taught that there is only 1 Universal Father in heaven and not to worship many deities, and basically that the Golden Rule is the most important way to conduct yourself in social situations. True worship is genuinely praising and acknowledging the Universal Father and not asking for anything in return, and prayer is asking the Father for personal help in a situation. Prayer works only once you've exhausted every avenue yourself, and truly need divine assistance.

Jesus ( Michael of Nebadon ) in no way wanted the mortals to bow down and worship him, like you said, but to acknowledge the Father in heaven, The First Source, and prime creator.

BenjaminFalkenrath: 100% exactly this is where it

100% exactly this is where it has become such a stumbling block but with so many people worship the book of the Bible worshiping Jesus himself worshipping others. False idols. This is to me I would say for example a lord on a dimension somebody with more knowledge than some of the inhabitants on that level but there nothing what they claim to be. So we have all this confusion and all this misdirection and all this bull crap going around. This is where it's been such a problem everyone is not sending love back to source. Not even aware of their alienating themselves. Source is giving love and giving and giving and not getting in return.

killaj22: I think the problem

I think the problem with all the confusion, is that primitive man regarded Caligastia, the Caligastia 100, Adam and Eve, and the other superior beings as gods. These beings were super human, and so impressive to them, that they had no other way of making sense of it, but to refer to them as gods. These beings gave rise to the myths and stories, that became distorted through verbal story telling over many thousands of years.

Jesus tried to clear up the confusion.

Van, who was one of the 10 superior beings out of Caligastia's 100, stayed loyal to the Father. He helped set up the garden along with the midway creatures who stayed loyal. These loyal midwayers also protected the Tree of Life, which allowed the super human beings to live indefinitely. The Tree of Life , however, had no effect on regular mortals. The 40 loyal to the Father out of 100, utilized this tree to stay alive , but when the 1st garden fell ( Adam and Eve's default ), the tree was destroyed during a fire. The 60 disloyal to the Father could no longer utilize the Tree of Life, because it had been taken from them. Thus they mated( land of Nod ) to keep their lineage alive.

When Adam and Eve first arrived, the mortals wanted to bow down and worship them. They wanted to worship Van as well, because they did not understand how he had lived so long, preparing the garden for the arrival of Adam and Eve.

killaj22: Tree of Life

The Tree of Life was originally brought to Earth when Caligastia arrived to sustain him and his 100 assistants ( Caligastia 100 ).

Tree was taken and protected by the 40 who stayed loyal plus the loyal midwayers, when Caligastia betrayed Earth.

Then the tree was destroyed later down the timeline, when Adam and Eve defaulted, many many years later. When Adam and Eve defaulted, they left the Garden, and allowed it to be inhabited by the nearby mortals, unattested. When the mortals realized the Tree of Life did not affect them, they became infuriated and destroyed the Tree and the Garden.

When Adam and Eve defaulted , they had to live out their life as a mortal, and die a natural death as punishment, and because the Tree of Life was no longer available to sustain them. Later they created the 2nd Garden. Which was much harder because they had to build it themselves. The 1st garden was already prepared, by Van, when they 1st arrived.

Tree of Life, basically utilized and stored specific space energies, that reduced the rate of decay to slower than the rate of repair, on the cellular level. It was an antidote to the aging process. Tree of Life was brought from Edentia .

Garden of Eden, was named Eden because it resembled the garden world of Edentia. Edentia is the Head Quarters of our System- Norlatiadek.

BenjaminFalkenrath: I agree. How else could they

I agree. How else could they have been seen but as Gods especially in this time. An yet again. Jesus came, though I ref to him by other name. However, as I see how the name itself is used as a negative tool. The one who came to earth did so to try and show a different way. IT is sad people still see the God complex. An so yet to clear things up. They're still as distorted as prior to his arriving this last time.

435: Lot of interesting points of

Lot of interesting points of view.

I would like to state that according to several people (including Manly Hall), that there are multiple hidden meanings in each of the biblical stories.

The Bible is a Qabbalistic text. An incomplete one at that. It has had many adds, moves and changes before becoming the "Authorized Edition."

Research the council of Nicea.

I would like to point out two very important things to keep in mind when doing a biblical exegesis:
1) "dead", "died" "death" etc- all points to the soul incarnating into matter (the body) here, now, in this experience. The "death" of the soul means the "life" of the body. The "death" of the body means the "life" of the soul. This is the ancient Egyptian (Kemet) philosophy, which carried into the Jewish and Greek philosophy (read Plato, etc.)
2) "Hell" is the earth. It is, again, the ancient philosophy that we "suffer" in "Hell" in comparison to the higher vibratory states called by some "Heaven." In the Quran it states hell "has 7 gates" (Quran 15:43-44). The "7 gates" are the 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils, and 1 mouth (total= 7). Ancient philosophy calls this earth, and human life "hell" in comparison to the conditions prior to incarnation.

"Sin" doesn't mean what most think it means. "The soul that sinneth shall die" refers to one who's journey in matter is not complete, therefore reincarnation (death) takes place.

A lot of you guys here on TC have read Matrix V. "Experience" is the key thing here. You have incarnations to gain experience. When these are COMPLETE, no more incarnation takes place. This would be "non-sin" Since sin refers to lack of completion (journey not complete).

"Science, Egyptology, Indo-Iranian, Chinese, Japanese, Persian, or Sanskrit, all, all, forever strove to solve the riddle of the human body. To drive the point home, these wonderful "Holy Books" are fables, parables, allegories, dealing with the chemical, physiological, anatomical and astrological operations of the HUMAN BODY" (read, "GOD-MAN: THE WORD MADE FLESH" by George W. Perry )

Lucifer has many meanings. It is the 'higher self' in ancient Rome, equal to Iesus (no J back then) in the Greek- the higher self. So that is why "Jesus" says "he" is the morning star in Revelation. "Jesus" and "Lucifer" BOTH are the higher self, just in different esoteric traditions. There are MANY more meanings to both of these names, but I do not want to go on and on all day long and cloud the issue to much. Lucifer is the heirophant of the Roman Mystery brotherhood , and Iesus the heirophant of the Greek school. BOTH refer to the "higher Manas!"

Satan has many meanings also, but in respect to what I just wrote about the Higher manas (located as the eye or pineal gland), Satan is the lower vibratory "brain" located "in the gut." Google "stomach second brain" and you will see what I am talking about, I dont want to be too long winded here.

The "serpent" has many meanings also, but chief among them are "1) kundalini, and 2) wisdom, and 3) fohat ("divine elctricity"), and in hinduism and buddhism, it stands for the individual "soul" or Manas (Mind).

BenjaminFalkenrath: I enjoyed reading your

I enjoyed reading your comment. You could definitely write several other posts with this. An I encourage you to do so. For the benefit of others to explore. :)

435: One of these days I'll start

One of these days I'll start some posts. I need to figure out how I would structure it. The longer the post, the less effective it becomes (at least for me), and this stuff usually requires really long explanations.

I just started back to school after 20 years, so I am getting in the swing of that, and writing papers, taking tests, etc. So far I'm loving it! But I have been busy as could be, and kind of worn out too.

I'm getting old lol

BenjaminFalkenrath: LOL Well, no harm in trying!

LOL Well, no harm in trying! I'd say start small. An Do a 3 or 4 part mini series like I do haha

435: worth your time

Worth your time to download and read: (PDF), or even buy a copy off amazon:

http://www.mrshumansays.com/uploads/1/2/6/8/12688070/james_m._pryse_-_th...

BamfOttO: I am sorry to say that You

I am sorry to say that You Tube bans anything in threat, and you tube is the enemy and is probably fucking with you beyond belief. You might get useful information, but as a person who says they know who the eenemy is I say no more than 5 hours on the internet and no more than 1 hour on you tube a week, cause guess who owns you tube.... GOOGLE!

western_yogi: Lucifer, Yahweh are all EnLil

Enlil created all the religions for control, separation and death and war. To keep them in low level consciousness in the lower energies and chakras, and in constant conflict.

Under the banner of the Eagle in history and to current times, Enlil sent his armies to destroy those who followed Enkie (plumed serpent or dragon). To destroy the serpent knowledge of the civilizations of central and south America, as well as the native Indians around the world.

It is why in history the Eagle banner or their minions have systematically went to exterminate native Indians who passed down this knowledge in their traditions and beliefs orally. It is why even the minions of the Eagle are destroying those ancient ruins in the middle east and Syria currently because there is serpent knowledge in those ruins. The Eagle and the Double Eagle in Syria ( Russia and the Americans) through proxy minions of the eagle have moved in to control this area to allow the destruction of the ruins and serpent knowledge. It is also part of the great culling that has begun through war, poisoning of air and food and water. Why the culling, Enlil has indescriminantly killed and culled his slaves and his followers in sumaria and other areas he dominate throughout history. He is merely culling his slaves and those that follow him, because it is his way.

western_yogi: are the annunaki still here?

What has your lifetime observations of history been? Ask yourself. War death and destruction under various nations under the Eagle banner in last 100 or so years and even longer. So yes they are still here. In the emerald tablets if you read them some left because they found they had aged quickly cuz of the gravity and radiation of this earth. Others stayed because they were born here and bound here cuz of this gravity and radiation and would age faster. And others stayed to finish their agenda.

freedmftr88: Very interesting subject

It's definitely two different splits. Though separating Satan vs Lucifer I never thought of it that way and a very good observation. Though I have seen a similar split separation on the topic. Anton Lavey and Satanism for example is not Devil Worship but a philosophy of individualism , ego? and defiantly without a doubt the worship of human nature . Kind of like half parody religion such as The Church of the SubGenius and The Flying Spaghetti Monster but at the same time a philosophy taken seriously , and I think they did take it seriously as a religion. What do I mean ? Well as a parody religion they satirize fundamentalism and the "Normal" sensor ( in MBTI terms ) society and belief systems but in Satanism's case it's a direct reverse of Fundamentalist Christianity. Even rock musicians questioned this . It's kind of like from their prospective responding to religion like " Your villain is a rebel who wants to be free , and your calling nonconformist free people sinners and are going to Hell ? Well Hell must be a nice place then. I want in !" And then there was the 1980s Satanic scare. This is where I would say there is a difference between " DEVIL WORSHIP " and Satanism. And no matter how many times Satanists including Anton's daughter was interviewed at the time , they were ignored and booed. And of course who's going to take Bob Larson seriously , a guy who turned his religion into a money making scam and having actors playing sinners in his badly acted exorcisms ( which are hilarious and how can anyone take his staged garbage seriously ? Nonsense ! )
Anyway... There's history of Anton's daughter quitting Satanism and later became a Buddhist and got into more light spirituality and things were getting ugly between her , the Lavey's and The Church of Satan. Rumors said that Anton was being attacked by dark entities and crying out to God which were his final words.

Which brings me to the very point. Do I believe that there is a Hell ? I do not believe in the biblical versions of Heaven and Hell because I believe those can be achieved on Earth right now , and perhaps we have both now. However perceptive you want to look at it. If it is what it is or if it's a spiritual fight of good over evil and that's why we are here... Everyone has an opinion on that.
But I do believe where there is spirit guides , universe , angel numbers .... there's dark entities. I EXPERIENCED THIS PERSONALLY when me and my Twin Flame started having problems ! I got wrong advice from false Twin Flame guru scam artists online for one. Then I read the books "Dark Side of Cupid" and "Alien Love Bite" and all of this energy was hurting my Twin Flame. Also I had a neighbor who I think was practicing Black Magick and had a dark spirit try to choke me with a necklace that shattered in my hands... It was scary ! But my spirit guides helped me around Christmas eve a few years ago.
Perhaps as a lightworker / Twin Flame it's common.
http://www.twinflames1111.com/blog/my-story/chapter-6-confronting-the-da...

In conclusion the original Holy books need to be translated for modern times as literature , philosophy , history and perhaps whatever could be found like spirituality. But of course there was bad people that hacked into the book. I believe that Jesus Christ was a spiritual teacher , philosopher but not this magical humanoid that church talks about. lol It's almost like that a Monty Python and The Life of Brain situation , tell people philosophy at that time and they would think your God or related to God. But maybe as a lightworker ... but the so called founders of religion ( which didn't come until after his murder on the cross right ? Christianity ? ) That's the thing . However there are cult leaders who want world domination , perhaps they feel that evil is the easy way. Perhaps these kind of psychopaths / sociopaths are the very leaders of the secret societies related to The New World Order. That I would call a human version of Satan / Lucifer.
Though that's the two human versions of that.
I say it's low energy and high energy of love is stronger than hate and fear. :)

BenjaminFalkenrath: @Freedmftr88 I agree, and...

Understand more than you know. Your words were very well written an thought provoking. An yes. Many like Jesus mat have came for certain things but they didn't come to be worshipped. I can say one 3 things for certain.

1. There's a BIG differnce in spirituality and religion.

2. A vast majority of everyday common folk don't know the difference.
3. There are many dimensions, an overseers of said dimensions however this does not make any of them supreme contrary to the thoughts of some such as the father of Jesus Christ is the son of a Lord I can speak with first hand experience has anger issues! [I've had 4 occasions encounters with him which his voice was audible 2 to which he was angry an one to the point his son had to calm him down]
An I'm spiritual none religious but when something physically makes you pull over your car, slam on the breaks. Throws it in park. Then averts your head full tilt upwards an says "I could end your existence in an instant don't tempt me"
You tend to pay attention.
Whatever the hell it may be... Point is, there is more to it than we know an there are forces we can't see. An sometimes what we think that is the force of Good is the opposite an what if one day we realize that this fake good has been casting negative shadows on the real light the whole time?

freedmftr88: Could be a dark entity posing as Jesus

How I perceive it , it would possibly be a dark entity posing as Jesus Christ. I took a look at this Black Magick website a few months back and what I found interesting is Good spirituality and Black Magick are performed in the same exact way probably because it's the spirit realms. Imagion light shining upon you from higher dimensions ( good and probably below for the other which I won't recommend to anyone of course. lol ) , Ask who ever you wish to speak to , then silent your mind taping into telepathy openly and receive whatever you get. They say to clear chakras or have angels / spirit guides help do this for you. How to tell it's a good spirit is usually good spirits talk in a specific way in which you can understand them for the most part. They talk in a semi-quiet tone of voice with this energy that feels calm and things. Evil spirits tend to be loud and have maniacal laugh , and scary stuff might happen like things being knocked over or the examples I previously mentioned. According to this Black Magick website I read , there's human friendly demons and then there are demons that would just tear them up. So maybe the human friendly demon is the translation sort of speech the middle guy sort of thing. Basically anyone who would use Black Magick for the most part is out of their own ego if revengeful or just individual manifestation. However I think it comes with some sort of cost or sacrifice. I read that people would do these rituals which involve roadkill or pricking blood out of their own finger or maybe use some sort of blood colored juice as a sort of symbolism in order to drink the potion. The website also mentioned differences between Black Magick and White Magick. White Magick seems close to New Thought / New Age Spirituality which I'm into but I've read on Wikipedia how some Pegans and Wiccans don't like receiving the New Age label.

It's like the Ouija Board or anything relating to tapping into the spirit realms. Listen to your intuition and your emotional heart at all times , that's your compas.

I still remember when I had spirit guides saving me on Christmas Eve 2016 through telepathy because I thought my Twin Flame was some sort of narcissistic abusive paranormal succubus and I was told to let go of fear and negativity and listen to my heart and if love feels good in my heart regarding feelings for this person , this proves that she is indeed my twin flame. I'll admit that my spiritual awakening and kundalini activation was scary and this was 9 years already used to telepathy with my twin flame. I had absolutely no idea about stuff like Twin Flame Mirroring , Running / Separation / Ascension . And it's basically trust Law of Attraction and do not fear this romantic paranormal connection. But yeah , very intense year indeed ! And it's interesting . It's like what Abraham Hicks says , we attract what we FEEL about when it comes to THOUGHT.

Also in New World Order terms , it could be connected to invisable malevolent extraterrestrials who are on top of the NWO that feed off of fear , hate , and all negitive emotions. According to Greg Prescott of in5D http://in5d.com/who-really-runs-this-world/ .

BenjaminFalkenrath: Yeah this happened in my

Yeah this happened in my teens and 20s I have no issues with it now. I know now exactly who it was. I'm older wiser an stronger than I was then. Still most of the people are very much spiritually asleep. Which is why it is so important to remain vigilant and alert. Watch out for family and friends but also be a positive light.

Tarheel: Here's some prop for your anger statement (re:the lord)

Even the bible- thumpers cant ignore these words from an obviously angry,vengeful lord.

Almost all of Ezekiel Ch.25 is that lord speaking of his forecoming self-titled "acts of vengeance? against many groups. Here's an example:?And I will carry out great vengeance against them , AND THEN THEY SHALL KNOW WHO IS THEIR LORD"!He said that against Philitia,Edom Moab and Ammon. I think there are more groups,actually.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+25&version=NIV

ReeBee: satan and lucifer

satan and lucifer are one and the same if you believe the bible. i just want to correct those who think demons are fallen angels, they are not, they are the spirits of the hybrid children that the fallen angels had from sexual with human women.

BenjaminFalkenrath: @ TH

Exactly, for a Lord of many faces/emotions/forms he definitely shows angry more than anything else, lol

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