What do you think about Immigration into Western countries?

I'd be curious to know what some of you think on this topic. I hang around with more businessmen and Libertarian people so I don't always get the full scoop from all sides.

Here are some points I see:

  • Illegal immigration is obviously breaking the law and is different than legal immigration. People often mix these two which is crazy. People who enter countries illegally are breaking the law and committing a crime. But even with legal immigration I think there are things to think about.
  • Different countries have different IQs. Obviously IQ isn't the end all measurement for the quality of a person, but people with higher IQs are generally less violent. The most violent IQ is around 85. Places outside of Europe, America and East Asia have lower IQs that are closer to 85.
  • In line with IQ and violence, people from these countries are much more likely to commit rape. 1/3 of the Muslims in North Africa admit to having raped a woman before. You are 22 times more likely to be raped in Iraq than in Sweden. I don't get how people, especially women, could be happy about bringing these types of people into their country.
  • Europe and America are told that it is good to be multicultural, but the people immigrating into these countries aren't multicultural. Why is it that you don't have multiculturalism in countries outside of Europe and America? Why are white countries the only countries that have multiculturalism? Why don't Muslim countries have white Christians practicing Christianity in their countries, or even white Atheists? Why aren't Asian countries taking in Muslims? Why are Europe and America supposed to be multicultural when the rest of the world isn't? You can't have it both ways.
  • If we didn't have state benefits like healthcare and welfare that suck up tax dollars then it wouldn't matter as much who comes in. This is how America was 100 years ago before the welfare state. Now that we have a welfare state letting immigrants in brings about a new set of challenges in regards to native taxpayers paying taxes for immigrants who haven't paid their whole lives into the system.

I'm all for helping other people and maximum freedom. But I think a lot of Western societies are self-sabotaging themselves for no good reason. Why would you purposefully bring people into your society who aren't going to help it? It is one thing to help bring people up. It is another thing to let people bring you down.

What do you guys think?

 Filed under: Countries / Civilizations, Immigration


TriThorntheReaper: I'm for legal immigration

I'm for it as long as it is legal. The ones that do it legally know if the commit a major crime the can never come back to that country. Like America

Terran resistance: well...

Most of the bombings in Europe are done on purpose to destroy left wing ideology and to stop free movement of people across europe to get surport they purposely detonate bombs. Probably Germany. always happens on a masonic date such as the 22 day of the third month (322) the number of death.

Done by likely white supremacist groups within government of the EU. As for muslims they can be very tolerant i have talked to muslims about a wide range of things including the prophet muhammed having a wife that was about 9 years old, they seem unphased. Because things were different back then.

But people will often use this as a hate speech against muslims. Theres alot of controlled oposition in europe both the far right and radical hate clerics are obviosly plants or let loose to control public opinion. Look up abu hamza. Hes obviously a plant. What kind of hate preacher has a fucking hook and blind eye?

National front in France never gets in after killings? Controlled elections. Surpress the far-right. Everything is controlled. Down to muslim extremists, down to anti-immigration parties.

Having said that immigration is out of hand, i remind people to hate the governments not the immigrants because they are only doing what immigrants have ever done and that is to look for a better way of life.

The brain drain happens both ways. Here in the UK lots of inteligent indians come to this country lookng to become doctors when their countries have very few doctors or facilities. Smart people moving away.

As for those stats. They are faked by the countries in NATO. Just like the freedom of press map of the world. "We bomb them, therefore everything they stand for is bad" is the ideology of the WEST.

Terran resistance: the lie that immigration is only a white idea

theres Bahrain its has more Hindus than arabs. Lots of fillipinos which are catholic.

UAE especially Dubai has lots of westerners which it encourages.

Libya has lots of black-africans and Gudafi even wanted an African Union with its own gold currency.
In fact now they are all flocking to europe only because he was ousted and had more border control.

Israel has lots of african jews.

Tunsia has a vibrant mix of muslims and christians even Egypt has its own share of christians.

Countries that only suffer badly with mass flow of immigration are countries like the EU and America because of big fat government that want cheap labor. Why no minimum wage Across the EU and America? You know exactly why.

Tarheel: Gadhafi ousted

He was ousted alright...he was ousted from THIS PLANET in a very ugly fashion.

Quinton: I'm sorry TR but these aren't

I'm sorry TR but these aren't even valid arguments:

Religion in Bahrain 2010 (Pew Research)
Muslim: 70%
Christian: 15%
Hindu: 10%
Buddhist: 2%
Other: 1%
None: 2%

Religion in the United Arab Emirates (2005 census)
Islam (76%)
Other religions (15%)
Christianity (9%)

"About 3% of the total population of Dubai was categorized as 'Western'".
"Non-Muslim religious groups are permitted to openly advertise group functions, but proselytizing or distributing religious literature is strictly prohibited under penalty of criminal prosecution, imprisonment, and deportation for engaging in behavior offensive to Islam."

"About 97% of the population in Libya are Muslims, most of whom belong to the Sunni branch. Small numbers of Ibadi Muslims, Sufis and Ahmadis also live in the country"

"The majority of Tunisia's population (around 98%) are Muslims while about 2% follow Christianity and Judaism or other religions"

"Egypt is a predominantly Sunni Muslim country with Islam as its state religion. The percentage of adherents of various religions is a controversial topic in Egypt. An estimated 90% are identified as Muslim, 9% as Coptic Christians, and 1% as other Christian denominations."

This is like finding 1 Asian in the NBA and saying that the NBA has lots of Asians. No, it really doesn't. It's basically the opposite of what you're saying.

Yes, America and Europe and The Vatican run the world. I get it. The people manipulating these countries are crazy, evil people. But that's not the people IN the countries. The people in these countries are really great people, that's why so many people want to immigrate there. And for people to not see this and to turn a blind eye to facts is completely insane to me.

Let me put it another way. The people are not a result of the government. The government is a result of the people. And which nations have the governments people want to live in? Yeah, I talk about no government and that kind of thing, but that is nitpicking and that is way into the future. If we can't even get the ABC's with a government then we stand no chance without a government. I just don't get it.

Why is it okay for Muslims to champion their culture and nations but not Christians?

Would you rather live in the UK or Saudi Arabia TR?

Terran resistance: you focus too much on religion

you focus too much on religion, i want a secular society not a christian one. Christianity has kicked the bucket and I dont want a muslm one either and before you think im pro-immigration i vote UKIP. Google it.

Though i remember Bahrain conducting a census saying that there were more hindus than muslims but i cant find it. There is a huge ammont of indians in arab countries because they are cheap labor. thats what immigration has been about cheap labor with countries with no minimum wage ; health care like here in the uk with the minimum wage.

Tarheel: Mixed emotions

I have mixed emotions on the topic.
-Breaking what law ? Natural Law says we are free to move about the universe.
-I would want to see some proof on those stats.
-If we didn't have state benefits like health care & welfare there would be a lot more sick people and poverty would be even more abundant. Yes, the programs needs to be streamlined but not abandoned.

I'm a sharing kinda guy. Should someone need something I have, I will share what I have with you and it would be nice if you could share with me if the situation is reversed.
So, you want to live here ? Be careful what you wish for. The grass isn't always greener. We'll make room for you but we expect you to help make this a better place to live.

"We can share what we have of yours because we done shared all of mine."

Quinton: Yeah, I'm with you Tar. I

Yeah, I'm with you Tar. I agree we are free to move about the universe. The problem is that people wouldn't be going to these places if they offered no freebies. There are lots of locations that don't have welfare states. Why aren't majority of Middle Eastern emigrants immigrating to these places?

Stats here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25VVmCviVao

I'm not critiquing welfare, that's a different discussion. I'm saying immigrants use welfare more than native populations and also have not paid into the system. Here's a great presentation on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u1J6EEhkyM

Quinton: More thoughts:

More thoughts:

Why is it that people from Mexico and the Middle East want to go to America/Europe and not the other way around? Why don't Swedish people want to go live in Saudi Arabia or Syria? Why do those people want to live in Sweden? Why is America and Europe more desirable than these places?

When Europeans go to Africa and strip it of resources they are evil colonialists. When Africans go to Europe and strip it of its resources they're "migrants".

People think that America and Europe (and any other rich person) is rich through exploitation. People think that for somebody to have more than someone that another person has to have less. They don't take into account creativity, innovation, free markets, the scientific method and all these things which create greater abundance and wealth. And then when people see the riches of America and Europe they think that it is because they are exploiting the rest of the world. Yes, of course America and Europe exploit other countries, as do other countries do the same. But the reason America or Europe is wealthy is not from that, it's from the people and the way they structure society. Different IQs create different societies.

If people are concerned with being fair then it's not fair for native people in America or Europe to pay taxes for non-native people to immigrate in. These people are heavier tax burdens than native people in society.

Last year 163,000 unskilled migrants entered Sweden. This is ~2% of the entire population. Muslims now make up almost 10% of the Swedish population. Rape has increased in Sweden by almost 1500%. As stated earlier, a man in Iraq is 22 times more likely to commit rape than a man in Sweden.

Why are Muslims, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Jews, etc all allowed to have in-group preferences, but Whites can't? Why is it okay for a Black to vote for Obama because he's black but racist for a White to vote for Donald Trump because he's white? Why are Whites supposed to be multicultural, but not the rest of the world? I really don't understand.

I understand being nice, but are you supposed to be nice to your own demise? Of course America attacks the Middle East, but Sweden isn't attacking them. Why are they taking over Sweden then?

Yes, it is the governments doing this. Why are the people okay with that? The whole thing baffles me.

Source for numbers:

Terran resistance: ask

ask the jews

Terran resistance: uprising

uprisings around israel coincidently is what started the flow of immigrants into europe in the masses. couldnt have a white super state at their front door could they? i.e the EU

as for the alien connection, certain entitites i.e reptilians from their home on their little war carrier the moon want the white race destoryed because theres less hollow earth interference. If I remember correctly jews are part reptilian as well the bushes worked with israel during the iraq war. Lots of different factions fighting each other for genetic control.

Tarheel: Strong with it

I share similar stances on most points you made. Sounds like you had better get crackin with that New Country gig, Quinton. I felt your animosity here on the right coast. You make some great points that I align with.

wolfe: I'm glad you posted a

I'm glad you posted a response to TR Quinton. I have been trying to figure out how to disagree with some of what he said in a positive fashion. I know for myself, im not ok with the immigration to the west at the moment. My family, like im sure many people's were immigrated to their respective countries. When they arrived they assimilated the culture that was good enough to bring them into the fold. Russians, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Finish, Dutch and many more people came to America and then became Americans. Today this is not often true, we have immigrants who arrive and believe they way it was where they came from is how it should be where they have gone. We are seeing this around the globe. I hate to pick a specific culture to tie this to, but the examples are to prevalent to ignore. The Muslim religion is expanding globally through emigration, mostly to nations who are democracies, easy prey to kill from the inside, democracies typically ensure free speech and the ability to vote. we allow people who have no intention of assimilating the culture they have joined, rather like cancer they infect it and corrupt it trying to make it into what they came from. Both Mexicans and Islamist have openly said they are breeding people out of the countries they are in. Islamist's in England can be see to say "This is our country now". Mexicans in the united states rally around Mexico's flag as the burn the American flag, all under the protection that we afford them under democracy. And were stupid enough to let it happen. When the freedoms Democracy gives you are being used to destroy that very freedom how do you intervene and still be a Democracy? Its one of the inherent flaws with the system. Twin that with a horrible education system and soon you get sheep who bleat meager protest when its far to late. I will say im sorry in advance to anyone I might offend, after all this is just how I see it.

Terran resistance: are not

are not mexicans related to native americans?

wolfe: At this stage aren't we all

At this stage aren't we all of mixed decent for the most part? But to be more precise modern DNA and genome research points to Westeuraisan to be the more likely source of the Native American people. South America research is pointing genetically to having be Australia (Aboriginal ?) from what I have read recently. regardless are we making an issue of who was here first? Is the past the important issue to this subject matter? If it is we need to rethink a lot of conversations globally.

wolfe: A Fable

An old women goes to collect fire wood one winter morning. As she travels the path in the woods she see's a snake nearly frozen to death. To see this poor creature suffering so she picks up the snake and puts it in her basket crooning "There there poor snake, I will take you in and heal you of your suffering". She returns home and over several days cares for the snake till it is healthy and warmth has returned to it's body. In her joy she picks up the snake to hug it, and it bites her. "Why oh snake why would you do such a thing? I saved you! I brought you into my home, fed you and gave you warmth and shelter. But now your poison bite has killed me...why?". The snake looked at her and simply said "You knew I was a snake when you brought me into your home."

wolfe: In light of recent events,

In light of recent events, how are people feeling? My heart breaks for everyone touched by the events in Orlando. Has anyone point of view changed at all on these issues or stayed about the same? I could never condone hate, but at the same time is love a two way street? I personally find it hard to be loving when things like this happen. I wish and strive to be a better person daily and hope to one day be able to "Love your enemy". hope is eternal, I hope we all find a way to make better tomorrows.

wolfe: I should also add, yes I know

I should also add, yes I know this guy was an American before it gets pointed out. I simply felt this thread was relevant rather then starting a new one.

Quinton: Every time something like

Every time something like this happens in America or Europe it makes me think of this Albert Pike quote:

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

I feel like we're all being played against each other like a bunch of sheep. That's how I see it from a big picture level. We are seeing the results of centuries of secret society involvement over a world population of sheeple. Everyone attacks everyone else and just escalates the violence exactly how I would want it if I was part of some European Order.

With that said, it just re-enforces what I have stated earlier about America and Europe. Why are these nations so stupid as to let just anyone in? Don't people understand that immigration is just another failed government program? The government can't do anything right, especially immigration. If we didn't have a welfare state and socialist programs people would automatically self deport because they wouldn't be smart enough to live in a high IQ society. But since Western societies are so wealthy and apathetic they think they can take care of the whole world and let just anyone in. It's suicide. People are helping others at their own demise. If you don't help the rest of the world you're racist, sexist, greedy, privileged or whatever other BS label you can put on it. We're told Western society is rich because they've exploited the rest of the world, despite the disparate IQ differences throughout the world. So apathetic Western societies get manipulated into being conquered once more by the forces they fought so hard to escape from.

The Vatican must be loving all this.

Tarheel: Strong with it....

Tell us how you really feel. I feel the venom in Pike's , and your, comments. That's why we love you, Q-dog.
Oh, "some European order" means....well, you know.

Terran resistance: Merkel with one of the belgian bombers


An organization known as G4S which is responsible of protecting different powerplants and airports and outsourcing security. When a CIA operative was asked that G4S was a front for the CIA in different countries they simpy said that they could not confirm or deny that but that they often co-operated with G4S with security issues. G4S was in charge of a certain airport on 9/11 and Theresa May in the UK allegedly has shares in the company. The man in question had connections to G4S which is where is weapons were supplied from because he was into security. The idea is to stamp out socialistic views of the freedom of movement of people across Europe and America. And also to cause a war between Israel and Iran which is the end game due to chemical warfare. These are just the build ups.

Tarheel: Anybody else....

Anybody else find it odd (not) that Orlando massacre happened as Congress is in a stalemate over gun control?

Terran resistance: ..and

...and when the Bilderberg group had their last meeting.

wolfe: The entire argument on gun

The entire argument on gun control is absurd and shows just how stupid people are and how out of touch they are with current technology. for 3000$ anyone can make a fully functional assault rifle is the comfort and privacy of their own home. Anyone who is a criminal and wants a gun will have one, there is no argument there to be had. And yes, I think a lot of thing in life are motivated by groups with agendas we can only guess at and I imagine they aren't in the common mans interest.

LettersToCleo: you have to tc search arc of covenant and see arc of gabriel

to understand what is going on.

after the 911 attacks on nyc, the elite needed to harvest soul energy, and negative emotional energy to try to manifest the reality they desired for 2012 So George Bush created reasons to go into the middle east and destabilize it. He was told removing saddam , and if the americans left it would spiral into civil war. but he did it anyways. He also went into afghanistan. What resulted was civil war in those two countries. And 1 million dead. Also the arise of Isis slaughtering in Iraq, you had 2 million traumatized iraqi's going into syria as refugees.

This trauma energy of consciousness triggered a civil war in syria.

In 2011 the russians got their hands on the arc of gabriel. it is the same as the arc of the covenant and pandoras box. the 3 given to humans by the watchers and annunaki with different names. the description and intent of the 3 boxes is the same. When opened it releases negative energy and trauma in the world. The saudi's agreed to lend it to the russians but they took it to their aldebarran base in antartica. The saudi's were angry and began to have an oil price war to drive down the price of oil and the russian economy.

The russians realizing the value of the box, decided to use the box to harvest their own soul energy from earth to try to manifest their desired reality. Also to protect themselves against the trauma energy of iraq and syria. They did not want to lose their control on syria, and have the trauma energy spread to russia.

so this trauma energy once released caused civil war in syria, and those migrants with trauma energy went into europe and destabilized europe. To the russians this was fine. Consequently with their campaign in ukraine, they were manifesting into reality of the old russian empire with land stretching into europe as it destabilized.

the uk realized this, because of their knowledge of the arc of covenant the israelis have and pandoras box which they have in possession. So to prevent the trauma energy of the millions of refugees spreading into the uk, they voted brexit to leave europe and to stop any refugees from entering the uk.

the americans were not letting migrants in regardless because they were aware of the trauma energy. they may have allowed token numbers in but they wont allow large numbers in.

europe is realizing the problem now and also looking for ways to stop migrants from entering europe and looking for 3rd world countries to deport the refugees to.

russia not wanting this to happen, have accelerated their bombing campaigns in syria to drive more refugees into europe. and have started up their ukraine campaigns.

ukraine is about moldavite, the alien meteorite crystal that is abundant in europe but especially ukraine. the moldavite crystal is used in the cern particle collider.

with the chinese building a particle collider 7 times more powerful, the russians needed a moldavite source that was outside of europe .

why is moldavite so important, was one of the sources with other meteorites where the alien AI consciousness first came to earth. Those that came into contact with meteors or into their fields could communicate with it, and it could take them over. In exchange for this those first few attained power and wealth and became the first illuminati.

its why there was black altar stones in early christian churches, the black cubed meteor at mecca, and the jewish rabbis have a black cube over their 3rd eye. it allowed the AI to harvest energy from the followers.

with descriptions of pandoras box and the arc of covenant and arc of gabriel being similar. and the information on pandoras box from the greeks. and how the arc of covenant was used by the jews in the bible. it releases negative energy and harvest soul energy to manifest the outcome of those in possesion of it. 3 boxes given to 3 groups of humans by the annunaki to the watchers to hand over to the humans.

freedmftr88: My thoughts might not be seen as useful but...

If I have anything to agree , it would be that Europe is smarter than America. lol

I take things like this from a more universal moral / philosophical perspective than politics.
I just see people as people.
Spiritually speaking , we live in a life that's either love or fear. Soul meaning unity / Ego meaning separation.
Also I'm a ( left wing ) Anarchist

Any sort of problems in the world I think is due to " Hierarchy "

and In spiritual terms , separation is caused by fear and 3D Earth programming relating to the fear of survival.

In anarchist terms , it's hierarchical , nationalistic, etc
There's the saying " Refugees Welcome , No one is illegal. "
We are all one in spiritual terms.

I'm already sounding like a peacenik but I'm anti-war and all for spiritual / pacifism.


Also it reminds me of this film clip which is currently labeled as Charlie Chapman vs Anarchist Kid : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2SpckZ6uPs
Totaly Libertarian Socialist Anarchism. :)

Besides , this could all be nothing more but a game in the wicked eye of the Illuminati / New World Order.
It's simple , each sides separately isolate themselves by telling each other that whoever is on the other side is evil , use some form of hierarchical BS to justify the hate and fear and it all leads to war and nationalistic trust. Oldest trick in the book. The problem of course is how to illuminate the problem , I think it's more about going deep down to the root cause.

But of course, the biggest problem with humanity is there are those who would rather listen to their hierarchical superiors than the reasoning humanitarian heart and soul.

Maybe that's why people trust laws so much only because it proved itself ( sort of ) , if alternative methods proved as being better solutions to problems then they probably won't be dismissed as such.
Relating , one of the things I like about Libertarian Socialist Rants is because it proves itself relating to scientific experiences that have been documented and proven itself to work.

But again , just my opinion.

This all might sound vague to some but that in my opinion is where I stand on the issue.

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